Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[traderjake]

"After the merger closes, a negotiation and arbitration process will determine the appropriate integrated seniority list for the US Airways and American pilots."  

 
just like the negotiation and arbitration process did for US and AWA pilots

 

[Phoenix]

 In the event that Silver rules in favor of the plaintiffs, and the union files an appeal with the 9th, the timeline will definitely conflict with the MOU timeline....
Any serious opinions?

 
 
If there is a dispute about the contractual stipulation of the MOU in paragraph 10 (seniority integration) then it falls under the jurisdiction of the System Board, as explicitly agreed to in the MOU, on an expedited basis...  Ironically, if Judge Silver decides that the MOU provides latitude for Pilot representatives other than the certified bargaining representatives then her decision naturally falls under the jurisdiction of the 9th for appeal... but additionally as provided for in the MOU itself, any dispute about the provisions of paragraph 10 also falls under the jurisdiction of the System Board...
 
e. The obligations contained in this Paragraph shall be specifically enforceable on an [SIZE=11.5px]expedited basis before a System Board of Adjustment...[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=11.5px]The more [/SIZE]attune[SIZE=11.5px] readers may remember that Judge Silver acknowledged the jurisdiction of the System Board in contractual [/SIZE]interpretations/disputes... she did so when she dismissed the West's complaint against the company in Addington II (the present trial), saying that the West's complaint against the company was a contractual dispute and thus fell under the exclusive jurisdiction of the System Board, not her's.  It was of course also the position of USAPA that the West's complaint against them should have been dismissed for the same reason.. a "minor dispute" over contractual language of the 2005 TA (which became abundantly obvious during the trial testimony).   The System Board has jurisdiction about contract interpretation disputes......
 
Jude Silver is so far out of her lane it is comical.   She is on a judicial safari... let's see where she decides to stake her claim and plant her flag.  If I were a lowly System Board member, I would take a special delight in removing a Federal Judge's flag if s/he trespassed and staked it in my playground.    

 

[Phoenix]

From Paragraph 10....
 
"i. Nothing in this Paragraph 10 shall modify the decision of the arbitration panel in Letter of Agreement 12-05 of the 2012 CBA."
 
Anybody care to explain why this is in the MOU?   (LOA 12-05 has to do with TWA pilots...  One might ask themselves why DUI didn't include a special little provision or LOA for the AWA pilots.)
 
 Hmmmmm....

 

[CallawayGolf]

If there is a dispute about the contractual stipulation of the MOU in paragraph 10 (seniority integration) then it falls under the jurisdiction of the System Board, as explicitly agreed to in the MOU, on an expedited basis...  Ironically, if Judge Silver decides that the MOU provides latitude for Pilot representatives other than the certified bargaining representatives then her decision naturally falls under the jurisdiction of the 9th for appeal... but additionally as provided for in the MOU itself, any dispute about the provisions of paragraph 10 also falls under the jurisdiction of the System Board...
 
e. The obligations contained in this Paragraph shall be specifically enforceable on an expedited basis before a System Board of Adjustment...
 
The more attune readers may remember that Judge Silver acknowledged the jurisdiction of the System Board in contractual interpretations/disputes... she did so when she dismissed the West's complaint against the company in Addington II (the present trial), saying that the West's complaint against the company was a contractual dispute and thus fell under the exclusive jurisdiction of the System Board, not her's.  It was of course also the position of USAPA that the West's complaint against them should have been dismissed for the same reason.. a "minor dispute" over contractual language of the 2005 TA (which became abundantly obvious during the trial testimony).   The System Board has jurisdiction about contract interpretation disputes......
 
Jude Silver is so far out of her lane it is comical.   She is on a judicial safari... let's see where she decides to stake her claim and plant her flag.  If I were a lowly System Board member, I would take a special delight in removing a Federal Judge's flag if s/he trespassed and staked it in my playground.    

Silver hasn't done anything yet. Why are you so convinced she will rule in a manner unfavorable to USAPA? Do you really think she will follow through this time and issue an injunction instead of saying "I really wish I could have done more" again? My guess is she will say something like USAPA has proven to be untrustworthy and focused only on carrying out the wishes of the east majority, but that she is unable to correct their flaws by order of the court.

 

[Phoenix]

Silver hasn't done anything yet. Why are you so convinced she will rule in a manner unfavorable to USAPA? Do you really think she will follow through this time and issue an injunction instead of saying "I really wish I could have done more" again? My guess is she will say something like USAPA has proven to be untrustworthy and focused only on carrying out the wishes of the east majority, but that she is unable to correct their flaws by order of the court.

 
She held a trial without asserting the immediate and direct harm. (She said so herself.  Finding wether or not there is harm is what she said the trial was for.).
 
Going on a safari is one thing.  Actually signing her name to an order is another.. which is why I said, "Let's see where she decides to stake her claim and plant her flag."    🙂

 

[767one]

Have you looked at the other team in this screwed up football game?
 
I wouldn't care, would actually support, separate west representation in a 3 way if we agreed that we start with 3 lists as I read the MOU. But the west will argue that we start with the Nic and won't come off of it. Then we will go into arbitration as a screwed up mess. Plus, I think that would open a whole can of worms.
 
By your post you don't seem to think USAPA will do a good job. I have my doubts too. Should we get a separate seat at the table? Can I get one at the JCBA talks?

If it opens a can of worms then it's time to go fishing!

cheers,

Bob

 

[prechilill]

 
 
If Silver gives a third seat away, I would think that opens a whole can of worms.   I would want a seat there myself for me and my buddies.   Anyone else want a seat there to have a say?   How hard to get a class certified?    HAHA

 
It's not hard to get class certified.  All you need is a stupid union run by stupid pilots from the east and about 3 million dollars. Oh, and you need unity... that may be a problem for you, though.

 

[767one]

They did say "Seniority is like crew meals".

Sort of "like a box of chocolates" you never know what you will get until you open it up. The last couple of years we had crew meals they sucked so bad the rats at LGA were getting sick eating them and even the roaches knew better. Even when we had them if they were inedible I would take the crew off the airplane and we would find something decent. Never got a call from the CP office although I did have a flight attendant supervisor tell me to get back on the airplane......did not work too good for her.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[EastUS1]

 
It's not hard to get class certified.

 
Little surprise is had there. I've some honest confidence you and some of your "spartan" colleagues could well be considered certifiable, even as just individuals.

 

[EastUS1]

Sort of "like a box of chocolates" you never know what you will get until you open it up. The last couple of years we had crew meals they sucked so bad the rats at LGA were getting sick eating them and even the roaches knew better. Even when we had them if they were inedible I would take the crew off the airplane and we would find something decent. Never got a call from the CP office although I did have a flight attendant supervisor tell me to get back on the airplane......did not work too good for her.

Cheers,

Bob

 
Ah yes, such fine memories of haute cuisine...Best I back off for a moment....I just ate. 😉
 
PS Bob: The latest in company behavioral "ajustment" iterations is to try and pressure-cook already harried, hassled and much-abused gate agents into essentially presuming command of the aircraft...as if they didn't have enough to stress over already...as if it's apparently going to be somehow made THEIR fault when you tell them not to pull the jetway/delay boarding/etc, for whatever ops reasons.

 

[cltrat]

Little surprise is had there. I've some honest confidence you and some of your "spartan" colleagues could well be considered certifiable, even as just individuals.

a certifiable spartan?

 

[EastUS1]

a certifiable spartan?

Indeed.  I've seen no other sort of those so self-styled around here, and...Well sir....It is 2013, not 400ish BC...Need we proceed further? 🙂

 

[767one]

Ah yes, such fine memories of haute cuisine...Best I back off for a moment....I just ate. 😉
 
PS Bob: The latest in company behavioral "ajustment" iterations is to try and pressure-cook already harried, hassled and much-abused gate agents into essentially presuming command of the aircraft...as if they didn't have enough to stress over already...as if it's apparently going to be somehow made THEIR fault when you tell them not to pull the jetway/delay boarding/etc, for whatever ops reasons.

I felt bad for the agents when we had to delay for any reason because the company tries to hold them responsible for the wx, mtc, lack of crew, acts of God, etc, etc. Sorry to see that it is still that way. I really don't miss that part of the job but once away from base and especially on the other side of the pond it was very nice.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[Pi brat]

USAPA has been far too stupid in the court room. I think if they were able to at least feign some form of neutrality regarding SLI, she may give them a pass. Nope DOH or nothing. She said that you'd be on dangerous ground if you didn't come up with something objectively fair...what did your scab union do? Doubled down and tried to lie to the West regarding their true intent of 10h. If I were Scabford, I wouldn't be sleeping very well these days.

While we are talking about stupid courtroom tricks I like this one:
 
Q. Where do you stand on the Nicolau list?
 
A. I was put behind someone who was 16.4 years behind me and
 
I believe they are 15 years younger than me as well.
 
Q. Why were you put there?
 
A. It was the determination of the arbitrator.
 
Q. Based on what?
 
A. Based on the criteria he utilized to produce the award.
 
 
Q. Kind of hurts to say but he put you there because you were
 
 
on furlough at the time of the merger; is that correct?
 
A. No, sir. I've never served a single day on furlough.
 
Q. You weren't on furlough when these two airlines merged?
 
A. That's correct, yes.
 
Q. Thank you.

 

[Reed Richards]

[SIZE=14pt]I thought I was on furlough from this forum, waiting for the Silver decision. I laughed so hard at the recent filing by the West Class I just had to come back early. Asking for a decision NOT based on the law? Really?![/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=14pt]As to the Company's request to drop their appeal to the Ninth, I am under the impression USAPA has to "let them?" If I am correct, might there be small price? Think before you dump on me for suggesting USAPA would NOT want the case dropped.  This is not Marty stuff, this is real law logic. RR[/SIZE]