Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Claxon]

Thank you Steve, Mark, Scott, Woody and many others.  I will follow up with the thanks for the many I missed.  alpa turned their back on you, it was not taken too kindly by you.
 
Notice that the west pilot who had the courage to speak in the following video, had his bpr votes taken over by sleeze bag west pilots now.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svD7hGN2z-0

 

[Claxon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUZzewAixF0

 

[Claxon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CiiQYqT72s

 

[Claxon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3Yt0zvN69w

 

[Claxon]

I think you get the idea if you want to hear the rest of these videos.  Look for part six after the following link.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAx7GgCzxfk

 

[EastUS1]

Pssst... Did you hear the folks that want to kick Hummel to the curb secretly salivate over the Nic. No it's true. Really, they wouldn't be opposed to the Nic if the compensation is enough. Wink. Wink. Pass it on. A recall equals the Mickey. I mean the Nickey.... It makes so much sense, because if we could get Hummel out then we could finally give the Nic to the West. Just think of what we can get for ourself if we give them the Nic. The sky is the limit for us. It's our biggest point of leverage (the Nic)... Even way more beneficial than CoC ever was. This might be our last best hope to cash in our Nic chip.

The sky is the limit!! Recall now.

Points taken Brother. I'm just trying to get some/ANY proper feel for whatever TF's really going on lately, and believe that no matter which side's speaking, that it's all worth our consideration to look, listen, think, etc. The whole "secret empire" thing's always disgusted me completely, and ANY semblance of supposed adults, much less Representatives, should have no problem putting their true agendas out in the sunlight for all to see....assuming their positions to be at all legitimate, that is. That the last is rarely (if even EVER) done in this world serves to explain my universal disdain for "politicians" of any persuasion.

 

[EastUS1]

 
"[SIZE=10.5pt]They also want to give the West Class a seat at the table in the dissolution of USAPA." Is that the true case here? If so...well...I'd like Hummel gone, but handing out a seat to the west at this point's purely INSANE, and would completely kill ANY chance for a negotiated, versus arbitrated melding with the APA people. [/SIZE]

 
Sigh!...Typically, an immediate "minus vote". OK then; I'm all ears...Can some mighty "spartan" step forward and show how the following's at ALL incorrect? 😉 "[SIZE=10.5pt]but handing out a seat to the west at this point's purely INSANE, and would completely kill ANY chance for a negotiated, versus arbitrated melding with the APA people."...? 🙂  Hint: "WAAAH!...Gimme my nic!",,"This is sparta!"/etc, fully fails to qualify as "logic".[/SIZE]

 

[nycbusdriver]

Bottom line.  If it was not for the following pilot, and a few more good men, you would not be here discussing this.  US Airways pilots would have been furlough fodder of a united airlines merger.   Steve was the man.  hummel needs his ass kicked out. 
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/27/business/27pilots.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 
I second that.  Although I would have phrased it:  "Steve is the man."

 

[end_of_alpa]

As it stands now, the elected at large (not local) criminals Hummel, Bradford, Streble, and Smyser will control the USAPA moneys after the union is de-certified. Of course there will still be "reps" however APA decides to proceed (and note, if we have a friendly merger of unions, with a vote, we will have a say. If we act like idiots APA will "fire" our reps and have new elections.)

DiOrio, Frear, and the ultimate traitor who "just wants to be the party guy everyone likes" John Taylor want to let the West Class in on the deal. I honestly just think they are stupid, not even thinking of the ramifications of letting the BPR run the show. But go ahead, change the CBL to roll call vote. And then give Eric and his friends inside knowledge and participation in our finances as they continue to sue us even after the union is only a organization, and not the bargaining agent. The number one guys really supporting the West participation are PHL pilots Dave Sye and Bill Glynn, political outcasts and notorious mal contents and throwers of all things feces. And Sye even brags about not participating in his own union.


Resolution regarding the Dissolution of USAPA
WHEREAS Section III- DURATION AND/OR DISSOLUTION Paragraphs A and C Constitution indicates that National Officers shall make a determination as to whether existing circumstances present, or may present in the future, the need for collective legal action on behalf of the pilot group, including, but not limited to, representation in seniority integration proceedings, and;
WHEREAS the pilots strongly believe that the duration and dissolution decisions should rest with the Board of Pilot Representatives (BPR).
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT the pilots propose to amend Section III of the Constitution to reflect a change to insure the BPR makes this determination.

RR

I had this discussion at length with Scott Peterson when we were choosing and writing a constitution for USAPA.  I initially advocated to completely remove the roll call provision from the APA constitution we used but I saw the light of day when we discussed the representational necessity to have a rep advocate and vote his representational strength when necessary.  In Congress there are repeated congressional districts gerrymandered to get the apportionment number for a rep.  Unfortunately at the union level it's too cost prohibited to do it that way so we combine senatorial BPR and representational BPR into one branch.  If you work the numbers DCA has too many representational reps and needs to be reduced to one.  However, Bill McKee didn't want the number reduced to one to give the East BPR an additional East vote on the BPR.
 
McIlvenna said it best:  "If that (USAPA) happens, said John McIlvenna, who heads the union local for the 1,500 former America West pilots, “we will be in all-out warfare.”
 
If and when APA becomes the new union for all keep in mind it's ALPA lite only with TWA pilots that THEY claim they were screwed and AWA pilots who claim they were screwed or East pilots who claim they were screwed or third listers who claim they're being screwed, or......etc, etc.  The pilots will ALWAYS be divided and management will from this point forward have their way with whomever is the new bargaining agent for at least the next ten years.
 
All because labor does not, cannot and WILL NOT use measurable objective standards among all of us to determine our value.  Dan, the West and many in the APA believe in the TITULAR status and category method of valuation while the FAA sets the bar at ATP, 1500 hours, first class medical and the company pays for the type rating.  The company has figured our strategy out and is prepared for the new world airline order.  ALPA, APA and SWA and Jetblue are in for a new day.  APA President says new hires are Captains.  APA Vice president says "This merger will give American Airlines the size, route structure and the synergies to defeat Delta and United...."
 
You heard it.....DEFEAT THEM!  PUT THEM OUT OF BUSINESS!  There is only one real way to do that and that is to drive our labor costs lower.  New hire pilots, your "career expectations" will be "Captain" positions with new hire pay scales....just what they are now.

 

[A320 Driver]

 
I second that.  Although I would have phrased it:  "Steve is the man."

I'm waiting to hear the case against Hummel...the truth, if it can be found. Or is this just another power grab. The kind that this pilot group and it's union is famous for. Someone tell me why McKee or Ferguson would be better. My guess is McKee is promising money and Ferguson is promising the NIC. Playing to the crowd. Using anger to justify making the usual mess that comes with it.
 
Driver

 

[glasspilot]

 with TWA pilots that THEY claim they were screwed

 
With the win in our lawsuit in 2011, it's not just a "claim" anymore. The win proved we were screwed by ALPO and we are now looking forward to the damages trial.
 
Now back to the subject of this thread!

 

[Pi brat]

King you have lost it. Time for you to get some rest. Tell Steve I said to say hello. Wow!

Hate

Instead of saying he's lost it, why not counter his claims with facts? This is a big vote at a critical time, lets have real information.
 
It seems to me that for years the ultimate sin was to vote with the PHX reps. What changed?
 
Back room politics at USAPA? Noooooo, say it isn't so!

 

[Pi brat]

 Change of control language that was Iron Clad.

Hate

You have got to be kidding me! You show me anything that has been claimed to be "ironclad" in the last few years that has been. I heard that about our pension once. And DOH.

 

[Pi brat]

 
With the win in our lawsuit in 2011, it's not just a "claim" anymore. The win proved we were screwed by ALPO and we are now looking forward to the damages trial.
 
Now back to the subject of this thread!

I think you might have missed eofAs point, but glad you're here anyway since you are former TWA. The west has the opinion that the APA will inherit USAPA's DFR liability. That didn't happen with your DFR, it stayed with ALPA, right? You guys sued the APA too, but that was dismissed, is that how it happened? What is your opinion of USAPA's DFR liability as it relates to the APA?

 

[Piedmont1984]

Hummel will shortly be addressing many of the issues the BPR has used to undermine his office and authority. The recall should fall flat. Keep in mind that the president is not beholden to any individual BPR member. The president must comply with BPR resolutions made as a body, not individual demands by BPR members with an axe to grind. Let's wait for Hummel to respond to these allegations and then vote accordingly. The only danger to Hummel and Bradford is pilot apathy. Get the word out.

'84