Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Freighterguynow]

We could. But we could just as we'll be on our second or third post merger contract with all pilots having enjoyed raises and quality of life improvements.

We'd all be married to Super Models and our kids would be at Harvard - for free.

 

[Beancounter]

If that's the case, then why have "new hire" pilots come in with a date of hire at the bottom?  Why can't the company have direct entry Captains?  I mean, explain to me why TIME is a factor that is unimportant or unfair to them but not to us?  Why should any of us use time as a measurement?  The FAA uses it for your ratings.  You get paid based on time.  I mean, really.  If time is unimportant than why have Company service pins?  Why have a seniority list at all based on TIME?  Why use age, for that matter.  Let the company hire the bulldozer construction worker in your area to fly the Airbus over you and your 5 years of TIME with the company.  You don't need a college degree, so why waste your money?

You're comparing apples and Chevys. DOH is used for new hires and throughout there careers at a single company. I can't get hired at United in 90' and walk in the door at Delta wanting to be a captain, can I? I've got news for you, the America West pilots, as a whole, aren't new hires at your company. The company you worked for (US Airways as a standalone) doesn't exist anymore.

Try treating us like equals and I think you'll understand.

Bean

 

[end_of_alpa]

You're comparing apples and Chevys. DOH is used for new hires and throughout there careers at a single company. I can't get hired at United in 90' and walk in the door at Delta wanting to be a captain, can I? I've got news for you, the America West pilots, as a whole, aren't new hires at your company. The company you worked for (US Airways as a standalone) doesn't exist anymore.
Try treating us like equals and I think you'll understand.
Bean

And the same goes for East pilots not being new hires. United and Delta didn't "merge". US airways is legally the survivng carrier up to this point. By law and legally. Mews the 10K, which you "westies" never do. AWA ceased to exist. That is the law. We are treating you as equals. Your time in service is ranked based on our time in service. That is not and has never been considered discriminatory or unequal. That is obviously something you Westies cannot nor can ever seem to understand. You discriminate against US because we have more time in service than you and that galls you, and simple. Like Jeff Koontz so eloquently stated..."me first, them the group". How sad.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Don't bother with the facts, N924 is just angry we fought the NIC and cost him a quick raise.  Like Trader its all about "him."  So he feels the need to come here and question our morals.  There are enough West Class jerks doing that every day, so its not like we need our own stabbing us in the back. RR

Funny how you call these cowards on the facts and they won't admit they are wrong. Especially 924PS "I got my A330 Captain" position. The rest of you can kiss my "category and class" a$$. FYI, 924PS....I am Captain qualified on the A330 as well, FYI.

 

[Pi brat]

 Like Jeff Koontz so eloquently stated..."me first, them the group". How sad.

Things used to look different for a certain Aqua pilot.
 
"Mark my words, this will go exactly like Pan-Am/National. Why?  Because the merger is almost a dead-ringer. Because the "unfairness" arguments from the Pan-Am/National merger have already been argued in federal court following the merger and all challenges lost. That means there is already precedent for this sort of integration. It's the safest way out for the arbitrator, the unions (national leadership, of course) and the two airlines.  And that's what everyone wants; just dispose of it as soon as possible. Anybody expecting something other than a ratio based on longevity will be disappointed.
 
But the PanAm-National merger directly applies. And that was straight longevity for the top part of the seniority lists, and then dovetailing for the rest.  That's the scenario you outlined above. It's been done before and will be done again.
 
As for slotting, don't assume it would be one for one or tailed in such a way that the bottom flying UAir guy is paired with the bottom AWA guy. There will be some sort of slotting but consideration will be given to age and longevity as well. I expect the  number one UAIR guy on furlough won't be much worse off than the bottom UAIR pilot flying. If he were markedly worse off solely because of his "furlough" status, then we're getting away from fairness and into pure arbitrariness in dictating peoples' lives and careers. The number one guy on furlough all of a sudden falls way behind the bottom flying guy, just ahead of him. Not cool.    Make your arguments and let the chips fall where they may. It'll be a subjective, gut instinct decision on the part of the arbitrator, but that is just the way it is and is the best way for all.
 
 
But I doubt the furloughees with 15 years of longevity will go to the bottom.  My guess on the ultimate integration will be to integrate using a weighted longevity formula.  Somebody with fifteen years at U that's now on the street is likely to integrate somewhere around senior AWA f/o or perhaps very junior captain. But that's just a guess.
 
Given my place, it won't make much of a difference whether there is a dovetail or longevity based integration. I suspect I'd end up right around the 90-91 hires. I'm a somewhat senior f/o by the way. [pretty sure he ended up with the '87 hires]
 
I'd like to say one more thing about the integration: the focus needs to be on results, not applications. Just because a method is applied uniformly does not make it fair.  Lots of ideas seem fair, but all ideas should be put to the test and judged according to the result.  It's not fairness in the application we should seek but fairness in the result because it's the result we all have to live with."

 

[algflyr]

.... There simply no way the AA pilots will allow a 25 year seniority East pilot F/O to be merged DOH with a 25 year seniority AA Widebody Captain. No condition or restriction could be crafted to mitigate that disparity....

 
But yet you think the APA wants the Nic... Hmm...

 

[traderjake]

 
But yet you think the APA wants the Nic... Hmm...

 
But yet you think APA cares about the internal order of our seniority list.
 
They don't.

 

[nic4us]

nonic4u.. Once a scab... forever a scab...

Completely agree....

USAPA=SCAB......

"forever".

Have a nice Nic inclusive career!

 

[nic4us]

Funny how you call these cowards on the facts and they won't admit they are wrong. Especially 924PS "I got my A330 Captain" position. The rest of you can kiss my "category and class" a$$. FYI, 924PS....I am Captain qualified on the A330 as well, FYI.

The fact is any orders placed at AA prior to 2005 were history sans merger.

Kind of like the fact that USCABA is history with this merger. The funny thing about the uscaba "cowards", is they think they still have 18 months left. Can't stop laughing......!!

 

[Pi brat]

 
But yet you think APA cares about the internal order of our seniority list.
 
They don't.

Do you know that for sure, or just saying it? I have no idea what the APA thinks.

 

[Boeing Driver]

The fact is any orders placed at AA prior to 2005 were history sans merger.

Kind of like the fact that USCABA is history with this merger. The funny thing about the uscaba "cowards", is they think they still have 18 months left. Can't stop laughing......!!

You have a big mouth...
 
I dare you to call any real US Airways pilot (you know scumbag, a pilot who actually got hired there on his own merits) a scab and a coward to his face; I am very confident that you will not like the cause and effects.
 
Boeing Driver

 

[Beancounter]

And the same goes for East pilots not being new hires. United and Delta didn't "merge". US airways is legally the survivng carrier up to this point. By law and legally. Mews the 10K, which you "westies" never do. AWA ceased to exist. That is the law. We are treating you as equals. Your time in service is ranked based on our time in service. That is not and has never been considered discriminatory or unequal. That is obviously something you Westies cannot nor can ever seem to understand. You discriminate against US because we have more time in service than you and that galls you, and simple. Like Jeff Koontz so eloquently stated..."me first, them the group". How sad.

I'm talking about DOH and you're talking about LOS. They are two very different things when talking about the east pilot group.

Bean

 

[767one]

You have a big mouth...
 
I dare you to call any real US Airways pilot (you know scumbag, a pilot who actually got hired there on his own merits) a scab and a coward to his face; I am very confident that you will not like the cause and effects.
 
Boeing Driver

I was cleaning out some old financial records today and found my records for the EAL strike assessment. They were over $400 a month and even though it did not work out well I still don't regret paying the money.

All the best,

Bob

 

[end_of_alpa]

I'm talking about DOH and you're talking about LOS. They are two very different things when talking about the east pilot group.

Bean

My DOH and length of service ARE the same.  If you've never been furloughed then they are the same.  West pilots didn't want LOS because furloughed pilots being recalled East still had a lot more LENGTH OF SERVICE coming back, under their belts than most of the bottom of the Westie list.  And that is really the problem YOU had with all of it.  Need me to "pull the tapes"?

 

[end_of_alpa]

You have a big mouth...
 
I dare you to call any real US Airways pilot (you know scumbag, a pilot who actually got hired there on his own merits) a scab and a coward to his face; I am very confident that you will not like the cause and effects.
 
Boeing Driver

Ask them the next time they jumpseat if any of the Westies have the balls to call you a scab to your face.  I personally reported to the chief pilot a Westie in the terminal several months ago who had "USAPA are scabs" on his bag.  If I see it again, I told him I would be reporting any of them to the police and file a hate crime/adverse job action report with the police and the company.  Hey, maybe this was the pilot Jeff Koontz was referring to when he testified on the stand how USAPA wouldn't fund his defense for wrongful termination.