Us Airways Pilots Put Final Nail In The Coffin!

[skeezer]

WN flies no RJs, highest compensated employees in the industry and highly profitable, B6 has no RJs highly profitable.

Hmm, guess your facts don't really stand up!

With all due respect, WN and B6 don't fly into ELM and LAN.

I think several of you misinterpreted that sentence to mean that RJs are the one and only thing that can save US Airways. That was not the point I was trying to make. I was simply making the point that RJs are a part of the only plan we have seen, and without them the rest of the numbers don't work. Kind of like losing a cylinder on a light single engine aircraft. Fly's fine when they are all hitting on all four, but lose one and you are hosed. You may still have the majority (three out of four) but you are going down.

Skeezer

 

[mweiss]

...with the current administration allowing thousands of jobs to be outsourced overseas...

The alternative of protectionism will simply put US companies at a disadvantage vs. their counterparts based overseas. Then the employees are still out of work, but it's all of them instead of some of them.

Balance, it all about balance and without it we will become another India very fast.

That has to happen anyway, to a certain extent. Standards of living among trading nations necessarily equalize somewhat over time.

 

[Kev3188]

Please name one airline where the ground ops. personnel you've mentioned make this kind of money. Apparently, I've been working for the wrong carrier all this time!

All I will say is I had a conversation with a former US pilot and the tales of cleaners earning $60-70K to do a job that is essentially contracted out elsewhere continue.

He told a very cautionary tale about life outside of US. He currently flys for a well know Express carrier. Words to the effect that the "Hardliners have NEVER had to work in the Real World, they have no idea just how bad it can get." [/quote]

Bob--

As stated a bit further up in this thread, the only way a ramper or utility person can make that kind of $$$ is by basically working around the clock. For what it's worth, rampers at NW also do the utility work at all but a few (8?) stations. Lastly, I'd agree with your proposal of eliminating a pension in return for 401k matching only for employees, with say, less than 10 years. After that, you'd have to find a way to make it equitable for everyone.

 

[cavalier]

The alternative of protectionism will simply put US companies at a disadvantage vs. their counterparts based overseas. Then the employees are still out of work, but it's all of them instead of some of them.

That has to happen anyway, to a certain extent. Standards of living among trading nations necessarily equalize somewhat over time.

I am glad you have the world figured out; your MBA does wonders on these boards.

It will only happen that way if allowed to by the powerful that make the rules; it's NOT a nature law like you make it out to be.

 

[hopethingswillbeok]

I am not a pilot groupey, but my gosh enough is enough, let's just blame every group except the folks running the company,,,,,,,why don't we all just understand everyones lifestyle and what is going on and stick together..........once again I ask what will the company do when Southwest comes to CLT, more paycuts......they are trying to set us all up to be sold.....so I think everyone should stop thinking oh it's this ones fault or the next.......we have no control any of us, it is what the big guys decide to do......so stop attacking everyone.......

 

[SpinDoc]

WN flies no RJs, highest compensated employees in the industry and highly profitable, B6 has no RJs highly profitable.

Hmm, guess your facts don't really stand up!

700UW:

WN has grown their airline very conservatively over the years
and have maintained lower debt loads than most carriers.
Lower debt loads bring a host of advantages in the capital
market and also in the overall cost of doing business. They
also compensate their employees less overall than network
carriers. They are approaching mature carrier status and they
have some labor issue of their own that are starting
to come to light. Their next contracts will erode their profitability
somewhat, but not enough to allow US to survive without
major cost reductions.

The B6 business model is built around low cost aircraft leases
and lower paid, junior employees. When B6 matures as a carrier
in 5 or 6 years, we'll see just how much of a cost advantage
they maintain when contracts come due for renewal. Or, better
yet, we'll see how fast Neeleman sells the B6 network to the
highest bidder, just as he did in the Morris Air/WN arrangement.
Also, B6 has ordered RJ's. They are ready to receive delivery of
EMB-190 series aircraft, which I guarantee they will create a "B"
scale withing their pilot group to operate.

 

[700UW]

WN's employees are one of the highest in pay and benefits, so try again.

2005 rampers will make $24.35 an hour and mechanics $42, while US makes rampers make $19 and US mechs like $26 or $28.

 

[hopethingswillbeok]

Once again I am not a Pilot, but why should they get hit so hard, If we didn't have any of us the Airplanes would not fly.....but why should any of us be hit so hard enough is enough, let's just all stick together, stop saying oh it's the pilots it's the mechanics ect ect......let's stick together......none of us is being paid over three hundred thousand dollars a year, so I would say they need to step up and decide what is going to happen, paycuts, which has already been proven, is not the answer......that is why folks are paid over three hundred thousand dollars a year....do find the correct answer, it seems so silly to think asking your employees just to give and give is the correct answer.....

 

[BoeingBoy]

SpinDoc,

"The B6 business model is built around low cost aircraft leases
and lower paid, junior employees."

I guess you live in the same "wonderland" as Siegel where changing the business model means paying your senior employees new-hire wages.

B6 has a primarily point-to-point single fleet type business model. They happen to be a relatively new carrier with no employees at the TOS, but that is in no way related to their business model.

And calling the E-190 a RJ is wishful thinking - it's bigger than any airplane that US Airways operated for much of its history and bigger than some of the planes we operated till recently.

Lastly, if paying pilots flying a smaller airplane less is a "B" scale, then we already have "A", "B", "C", "D", "E", "F", etc scales.

Jim

 

[mweiss]

I am glad you have the world figured out; your MBA does wonders on these boards.

It will only happen that way if allowed to by the powerful that make the rules; it's NOT a nature law like you make it out to be.

Well, since you're obviously so brilliant, how about explaining to the great unwashed how protectionism prevents the companies from simply moving entirely out of the country?

 

[NeedForSpeedNFS]

I truly see your point, I do...but that doesn't make unions obsolete because man is still man and will still take full advantage. Corporations run by greedy men are doing just that with the current administration allowing thousands of jobs to be outsourced overseas so the already rich people become extremely wealthy and the middle class struggles, some even becoming welfare cases and working poor. Balance, it all about balance and without it we will become another India very fast.

Not everyone is blessed like my son who can earn a high level of education at a young age and prosper. There are many people without such gifts that also deserve a change at a decent life without worrying about tyranny running their lives.

CAV!!!!!! RELAX DUDE!!!! Look at your words....Corporations... greedy men...current administration ALLOWING thousands of jobs to be outsourced??? This one, you really need to get a grip on Cav, you haven't a clue....rich people....middle class struggles....WORKING POOR!!!!!! OH How I LOVE that one!!!!!......We will become another India very fast. WOW!!! Where to begin..... Actually, all I can say is what I was trying to get across to 700 the other day. Believe it or not, I TRULY believe there is a place for unions, but this kind of rhetoric, babble, class envy,and, YOUR OWN COMFORT level does not bode well for a unions' point of view anymore!!!! This is all OLD, TIRED, union rhetoric that will not work in the 21st century!!! Business models are different. Do you, or me think they may be unfair??? Of course!!! But this is the REALITY. You may THINK your going to change it, You will not. We, as union members, have to change tactics with the conditions before us. Don't misunderstand what i am saying to mean give companies everything they want. To the contrary, we must think, and use tactics as they do! One of the biggest obstacles that i see facing union members today,myself included, is WE, as INDIVIDUALS, need to take more reponsibility for our own house!..ie; Retirement....Companies just are not going to fund them like they did before...this is reality. Health care.... Forget the call, "health care for all", again, companies are GOING to DEfund this. Do you think this is fair??? Of course not, because we have been raised on this mentality that "the company" will take care of these needs, they were negotiated, and we cant lose these benefits. CAV, They are already gone!!!! This IS the reality of what is to come. None of us may like what I had to say here, but just one persons' opinion. GOOD DAY!!....MORE LATER!!.....

 

[delldude]

All I will say is I had a conversation with a former US pilot and the tales of cleaners earning $60-70K to do a job that is essentially contracted out elsewhere continue.

He told a very cautionary tale about life outside of US. He currently flys for a well know Express carrier. Words to the effect that the "Hardliners have NEVER had to work in the Real World, they have no idea just how bad it can get."

Bob--

As stated a bit further up in this thread, the only way a ramper or utility person can make that kind of $$$ is by basically working around the clock. For what it's worth, rampers at NW also do the utility work at all but a few (8?) stations. Lastly, I'd agree with your proposal of eliminating a pension in return for 401k matching only for employees, with say, less than 10 years. After that, you'd have to find a way to make it equitable for everyone.

how about having someone clock the old boy in when hes not there...?
enter the WORKBRAIN

 

[bassin]

WN's employees are one of the highest in pay and benefits, so try again.

2005 rampers will make $24.35 an hour and mechanics $42, while US makes rampers make $19 and US mechs like $26 or $28.

Rampers making $19 an hour. You people don't see anything wrong with that? Unskilled labor making $19 an hour and you folks wonder why Usairways is going bankrupt. There is a lot of skilled labor in this country that does not make $19 an hour. I think the rampers should be jumping for joy making that kind of money.

 

[700UW]

Go ask Fine Air or Valjuet about having low paid workers loading a flight.

 

[cavalier]

Deleted by moderator