US Pilot Labor Thread--ALL Pilot/Union Issues Discussed Here

[Richard]

Continue the debate here please.

Reminder--personal attacks/insults/namecalling will NOT be tolerated.

 

[nycbusdriver]

BoeingBoy said:

In other words, you "suffered" much less than many of your East peers will gain, hence a convenient change of heart...

Jim

How dare you make a characterization of me like that. You don't know me. I put that merger behind me virtually immediately after Kagel was announced. Just because you probably screamed like a stuck pig doesn't mean we are all so short sighted.

 

[nostradamus]

electricjet98 posts today

November 8th Update and News
Dear AWA Pilots,

Please log in to read our latest (and primary) update, published late Sunday evening.

electricjet98

I generally refrain, and discourage others, from posting information originating at a password protected site.

electicjet98, how is the fishing going? Catching any?

 

[Phoenix]

electricjet98 posts today

November 8th Update and News
Dear AWA Pilots,

Please log in to read our latest (and primary) update, published late Sunday evening.

electricjet98

I generally refrain, and discourage others, from posting information originating at a password protected site.

electicjet98, how is the fishing going? Catching any?

If someone can't make a point in the first paragraph, who would be inclined to read another thirty?

 

[BoeingBoy]

How dare you make a characterization of me like that.

Because I get things like this when I disagree with the East cult:

Just because you probably screamed like a stuck pig doesn't mean we are all so short sighted.

Jim

 

[nostradamus]

Jim,

Did you characterize all East pilots as a cult?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Nope, since I don't talk to all East pilots. If most of those who post here are any indication, though.....

Jim

 

[Megasnoop]

IIRC, West was in the early stages of Section 6 when the merger came along, and negotiations were halted to concentrate on a single contract. They also gave notice under the TA in late 2007/early 2008 that they wanted to resume Section 6 but the company put that off. Then USAPA became the CBA and the thought of West Section 6 disappeared.

Jim

Regarding your comments last week, Boeing, your way off. Read Section 30 of the West contract, off the USAPA web site. They signed a 3-year contract in January 2004. It was up for early negotiations in June 2006, Section 6 no earlier than January 2007. The merger was announced May 2005. So, you want to try again?

They also gave notice under the TA in late 2006/early 2007 that they wanted to resume Section 6 but the company put that off. Then USAPA became the CBA and the thought of West Section 6 disappeared.

Batting 0-2, Boeing. You cant resume something you never started. Maybe they finally filed section 6, the company may have agreed, but no section 6 negotiations ever took place. ALPO kept that from happening, withholding funds and attorneys. Thats from a former PHL reps who were there, before ALPO removed him, guaranteeing the USAPA win. The old east MEC passed a resolution offering West full support for them going into section 6, but ALPO said the June deadline was missed. As I said before, I quit ALPO long before the merger, so I rely on what Dave C told me. Him I trust. Youv certainly spewed out enough lately to not get much believability.

Boeing, I have enjoyed reading your stuph over the years, I even agree with you sometimes. but youv gone so anti-east with your misrepresentations lately, I had to call you on them. Truth is good for the soul. Try a little soul food. Snuper




SECTION 30
DURATION


A. This Agreement shall become effective upon the date of signing, and
shall remain in full force and effect until December 30, 2006, and shall
renew itself without change each succeeding December 31 thereafter,
unless written notice of intended change is served in accordance with
Section 6, Title I of the Railway Labor Act, as amended, by either party
hereto at least sixty (60) calendar days prior to the date the parties may
commence negotiations pursuant to Subsection 30.B. or a
subsequent anniversary of such date, unless the parties agree
otherwise.
B. The parties shall commence negotiations pursuant to Section 6 of the
Railway Labor Act, as amended, six (6) months prior to December 30,
2006, or the date the Company repays in full the loan issued to the
Company pursuant to the Loan Agreement guaranteed by the Air
Transportation Stabilization Board, whichever occurs first. If no
successor agreement is reached by January 1, 2007, the parties
agree to jointly petition the National Mediation Board, invoking its
mediation services under the Railway Labor Act, as amended. Each
party agrees that there shall be no objection to invoking the mediation
process at that time.
30-1

 

[Phoenix]

BoeingBoy said:



How dare you make a characterization of me like that. You don't know me. I put that merger behind me virtually immediately after Kagel was announced. Just because you probably screamed like a stuck pig doesn't mean we are all so short sighted.

Some are disposed to using a grinding stone for milling wheat and some for an axe.

 

[nostradamus]

Nope, since I don't talk to all East pilots. If most of those who post here are any indication, though.....

Jim

You said the East cult. The exchange of differences on this web board are characterized by you as such; the East opinions are narrowed down to cult like beliefs. Interesting.

Do you think this thread on the message board, which is the most posted, is a way for you to be heard in a world where no one else cares about what you have to say?

If you had a opinion in the woods, would anyone care?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Regarding your comments last week, Boeing, your way off.

Apparently I didn't recall correctly or recalled from a different group's thread (AFA/IAM), so I apologize for the first part apparently being in error.

As for the second part, you apparently picked up part of the quote while I was correcting the time frame for the request to open Section 6 - notice the full quote says "late 2007/early 2008" while the quote of just the last portion says "late 2006/early 2007."

That West submitted the proper request for separate Section 6 negotiations is not in doubt - see this article for further proof.

Why West Section 6 talks went nowhere in early 2008 doesn't matter - the West MEC satisfied the TA requirements for separate Section 6 negotiations - the TA that both ALPA and the company signed. I'd note that West had a staffed negotiating committee until USAPA was elected as the CBA and I'm sure you're not saying that the company bowed to every ALPA wish so declined to enter Section 6 talks without ALPA's OK.

Jim

 

[Megasnoop]

That West submitted the proper request for separate Section 6 negotiations is not in doubt - see this article for further proof.

Oh come on, Boeing. Look at the date, March 14 2008, 1 month before ALPO got the boot. Negotiations were NOT well under way. Knock off your spin, easily disprovable.

Why West Section 6 talks went nowhere in early 2008 doesn't matter - the West MEC satisfied the TA requirements for separate Section 6 negotiations - the TA that both ALPA and the company signed. I'd note that West had a staffed negotiating committee until USAPA was elected as the CBA and I'm sure you're not saying that the company bowed to every ALPA wish so declined to enter Section 6 talks without ALPA's OK.

West talks went nowhere bacause there was 32 days between their pronouncement and ALPO going under. Thats whhy it went nowhere. And Ill note that both MECs had staffed their negotiating committees since the merger was announced. Boeing, your spinning out of control on this.

Your west buddy Metroyet wrote: the West was “well into Sec. 6 negotiationsâ€￾ when ALPO got the ax. Its all untrue. You two cant sell something that didnt happen.

Then you wrote:
"IIRC, West was in the early stages of Section 6 when the merger came along, and negotiations were halted to concentrate on a single contract. They also gave notice under the TA in late 2007/early 2008 that they wanted to resume Section 6 but the company put that off. Then USAPA became the CBA and the thought of West Section 6 disappeared."

Its beyond spin, Boeing. West contract signed Jan 2004. Merger April 2005. West not even able to request early negotiations until June 2006. Again, you cant halt something you never started or couldnt start. Its outright misrepresentation of the truth. snuper

 

[electricjet98]

That West submitted the proper request for separate Section 6 negotiations is not in doubt - see this article for further proof.

Why West Section 6 talks went nowhere in early 2008 doesn't matter - the West MEC satisfied the TA requirements for separate Section 6 negotiations - the TA that both ALPA and the company signed. I'd note that West had a staffed negotiating committee until USAPA was elected as the CBA and I'm sure you're not saying that the company bowed to every ALPA wish so declined to enter Section 6 talks without ALPA's OK.

Jim

As usual, Jim is correct. I think his record of such as well as his analysis of the "cult" is what so infuriates them.

I'm not sure these links will work, but they are for the letters from JMac on 4/18/08 stating the current status of AWA pilots section 6: Became amendable 12/2006; separate section 6 between AWA pilots and management began 4/14/2008 with the next agreed upon date of 5/28/2008.

FO Bradford replied on 4/25/2008 that it is USAPA's intention to only negotiate a singe combined agreement.


http://www.awappa.org/Uploads/mcilvenna%20...e%20sec%206.pdf

http://www.awappa.org/Uploads/bradford%20l...a%20sec%206.pdf

 

[BoeingBoy]

Oh come on, Boeing. Look at the date, March 14 2008, 1 month before ALPO got the boot. Negotiations were NOT well under way. Knock off your spin, easily disprovable.

In your zeal, apparently you failed to notice that I didn't say that West was "well under way." I merely said that West had submitted the proper notice, as required by the TA, to begin Section 6 negotiations. USAPA, bound by the TA, was immaterial whether they would win the election or not (and they did win). In fact, USAPA is still bound by the TA and it's provision for West to enter Section 6 negotiations. Of course, I won't hold my breath until USAPA allows that to happen...

Jim

 

[nostradamus]

As usual, Jim is correct. I think his record of such as well as his analysis of the "cult" is what so infuriates them.

I'm not sure these links will work, but they are for the letters from JMac on 4/18/08 stating the current status of AWA pilots section 6: Became amendable 12/2006; separate section 6 between AWA pilots and management began 4/14/2008 with the next agreed upon date of 5/28/2008.

FO Bradford replied on 4/25/2008 that it is USAPA's intention to only negotiate a singe combined agreement.


http://www.awappa.org/Uploads/mcilvenna%20...e%20sec%206.pdf

http://www.awappa.org/Uploads/bradford%20l...a%20sec%206.pdf

.

Death, where is thy sting? You got us now.

Where is the part where mcilvenna said he will destroy usapa. Wait, I have it right here.

"Although the election is far from over, there are plans in place to destroy USAPA should they prevail as our bargaining agent. We’ve already announced the formation of the America West Airlines Pilots Protective Association (AWAPPA), and the website is up and running at www.awappa.org. In addition, you should have started receiving email communications from AWAPPA that detail, in part, the plans to ensure USAPA fails in its quest to disadvantage America West pilots. If you have not received these emails, please adjust your spam settings to allow emails from info@awappa.org and/or send an email to that address."

He instructed his constitutes to not give USAPA a chance to prove themselves, before the election results.