US Pilot Labor Thread--ALL Pilot/Union Issues Discussed Here

[nostradamus]

Jim,

Question, do you travel on Us Airways non revenue, when you go to FFocus meetings? The reason I ask is I know there is a policy prohibiting business travel using non revenue benefits.

 

[electricjet98]

He instructed his constitutes to not give USAPA a chance to prove themselves, before the election results.

No reason "to give them a chance"; we could smell this pig a mile away.

 

[nostradamus]

No reason "to give them a chance"; we could smell this pig a mile away.

Wrong answer.

 

[electricjet98]

Wrong answer.

Really? How about this:

The stench from the USAPA cult, represented by the on-line DOH petition, the AAA negotiating committee's position, the march on Herndon, the USAPA drive and numerous posts from both named and unnamed individuals far proceeded any communication of resistance from JMac.

 

[nostradamus]

west pilots quotes;

"Although the election is far from over, there are plans in place to destroy USAPA should they prevail as our bargaining agent."

"email communications from AWAPPA that detail, in part, the plans to ensure USAPA fails "

"No reason "to give them a chance"; we could smell this pig a mile away."


I have no further questions, your honor.

 

[cleardirect]

For all of you USAPA propagandists. Facts really are messing up your fantasy.

USAPA Update
November 10, 2008


Item One: Congratulations to all US Airline Pilot Association members as we embrace the democratic process as one of the core principles on which our Union was founded. Over 70% of us voted in the first USAPA Pilot ballot which contained three separate items including Pilot ratification of the USAPA Constitution as amended. All three items passed overwhelmingly.

They were as follows:
Ratification of changes to the USAPA Constitution and By-Laws; passed 1,767 to 196.
Furlough pilot assistance with medical insurance; passed 1,456 to 518
Conditional merger assessment of $100 in the event of an announced merger; passed 1,694 to 280

What have we heard from all of you? That USAPA had over 3000 members. When someone would point out the LM-2 filing showing only 2534 members we heard that those were old number.

Do the math from your own association. If 1963 members voted and that is 70% of your members that means only 2804 total USAPA members. 5200 pilots 2804 members. An earth shattering 54% of the US Airways pilots have joined the angry FO club. Adding only 280 additional members since June 30, 2008 from the LM-2 filing. That is pretty sad.

So can USAPA really say that they represent all of US Airways pilots when almost half are not members?

Anyone think that the company is willing to go along with a weak association and terminate 46% of the pilots?

 

[Phoenix]

If anyone tires of the endless fraternal banter here at USAir, I hear Delta Northwest boards will be hopping on Novemeber 20th, compliments of ALPA merger guidelines.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

For all of you USAPA propagandists. Facts really are messing up your fantasy.


What have we heard from all of you? That USAPA had over 3000 members. When someone would point out the LM-2 filing showing only 2534 members we heard that those were old number.

Do the math from your own association. If 1963 members voted and that is 70% of your members that means only 2804 total USAPA members. 5200 pilots 2804 members. An earth shattering 54% of the US Airways pilots have joined the angry FO club. Adding only 280 additional members since June 30, 2008 from the LM-2 filing. That is pretty sad.

So can USAPA really say that they represent all of US Airways pilots when almost half are not members?

Anyone think that the company is willing to go along with a weak association and terminate 46% of the pilots?

With 2700 active East pilots, that would mean all active are members and some out on LTD or West pilots, would it not?

 

[cleardirect]

Under the “Be careful what you wish for“ category!

I took the time to do a complete comparison of the two C&BL. For some reason the image of communist leaders kept running through my head. For all of you USAPA supporters out there, read the C&BL very carefully. The thought police are running wild. Not only for what USAPA has added but the little things they deleted.

Did any of you “good union pilotâ€￾ take the time to read the new C&BL? Take the time and find out what you voted for. Ask the leadership why they did not include a complete detailed list of changes. They wrote it they know what the changes are. Why not make it easy on the membership. Because there are changes in there they do not want you to know about.

Never forget. When an unelected group of people start to discriminate against a smaller group. It is just a matter of time before they find your smaller group.

Look at the empire/ trump group. Ask them if they are being discriminated against. Today the west pilots and the empire/trump. Tomorrow maybe LGA maybe the 190 guys who knows. You guys know your history better than I do. US Air has a tradition of throwing someone under the bus.

Here is something that I found in the changes to the C&BL. It is a deletion of a membership right. Between the additions of the penalties and the deletion of this sentence I found chilling almost communist in it’s implementation.

Sections 6 A, 2 2. The right to express his/her view or argument on any issue or on behalf of any candidate for office;

This very important right to free speech has been removed. Under this new C&BL a member will not be allowed to express their views or opinions. Match that with this new addition.

US Airways pilots are solemnly charged with the responsibility to, at all times and in all decisions, consider the consequences of their actions upon the lives and careers of their fellow union pilots and our profession. Pilots failing to adhere to this paragraph are subject to a fine, suspension and/or being placed in bad standing as USAPA members, on an individual basis, to be determined by the Board of Pilot Representatives.

This is left up to the discretion of the BPR what that means. So now without the right to free speech the board could determine that your opinions are detrimental to USAPA (the communist state) and fine you for your dissenting viewpoint.

Add to this paragraph.

USAPA is hereby authorized to enforce any fines levied under this Article in state or federal court, as it deems necessary. In the event of a decision awarding a fine, in whole or part, to USAPA, the member (or former member) will be liable for USAPA's reasonable attorney's fees as determined by the court.

Now USAPA has removed your freedom of speech. The board determines what thought or views are unacceptable to the unelected board. They set the fine. Then are allowed to take you to state or federal court to collect the imposed fines plus attorneys fees. Thereby not costing the association anything to collect self determined fines. Nice little racket.

Now if anybody is thinking that USAPA would never do such a thing. Think again. This is the same group that personally sued 18 individual pilots. Then tried to cut a deal in exchange for testimony.

Anyone thinking that this provision will only be used against the west, think again. When you have unelected leaders allowed to dominate a minority. You had better be careful. At some point you could become the minority.

How many times did the power shift between CTL and PHL. What if LGA or BOS want something. The members strongly oppose the powers that be. No free speech, fines federal court, big bills.

 

[Metroyet]

Under the “Be careful what you wish for“ category!

I took the time to do a complete comparison of the two C&BL. For some reason the image of communist leaders kept running through my head. For all of you USAPA supporters out there, read the C&BL very carefully. The thought police are running wild. Not only for what USAPA has added but the little things they deleted.

Did any of you “good union pilotâ€￾ take the time to read the new C&BL? Take the time and find out what you voted for. Ask the leadership why they did not include a complete detailed list of changes. They wrote it they know what the changes are. Why not make it easy on the membership. Because there are changes in there they do not want you to know about.

Never forget. When an unelected group of people start to discriminate against a smaller group. It is just a matter of time before they find your smaller group.

Look at the empire/ trump group. Ask them if they are being discriminated against. Today the west pilots and the empire/trump. Tomorrow maybe LGA maybe the 190 guys who knows. You guys know your history better than I do. US Air has a tradition of throwing someone under the bus.

Here is something that I found in the changes to the C&BL. It is a deletion of a membership right. Between the additions of the penalties and the deletion of this sentence I found chilling almost communist in it’s implementation.

This very important right to free speech has been removed. Under this new C&BL a member will not be allowed to express their views or opinions. Match that with this new addition.





This is left up to the discretion of the BPR what that means. So now without the right to free speech the board could determine that your opinions are detrimental to USAPA (the communist state) and fine you for your dissenting viewpoint.

Add to this paragraph.




Now USAPA has removed your freedom of speech. The board determines what thought or views are unacceptable to the unelected board. They set the fine. Then are allowed to take you to state or federal court to collect the imposed fines plus attorneys fees. Thereby not costing the association anything to collect self determined fines. Nice little racket.

Now if anybody is thinking that USAPA would never do such a thing. Think again. This is the same group that personally sued 18 individual pilots. Then tried to cut a deal in exchange for testimony.

Anyone thinking that this provision will only be used against the west, think again. When you have unelected leaders allowed to dominate a minority. You had better be careful. At some point you could become the minority.

How many times did the power shift between CTL and PHL. What if LGA or BOS want something. The members strongly oppose the powers that be. No free speech, fines federal court, big bills.

Who Cares. The USAPA, BPR, C&BL's and all other official sounding acronyms from these clowns will all be thrown in the trash in the not too distant future. The faster they dig their DFR Grave, the faster this will all be over. Luckily they're all digging as fast as humanly possible. Can't wait to see 54% impose their will unimpeded on the other 46%.

USAPA is a pathetic, marginalized, sorry joke that has nothing but failure in it's future.

 

[Pi brat]

Nope, since I don't talk to all East pilots. If most of those who post here are any indication, though.....

Jim

Cult? Jeez Jim, you worked with us for how many years? Thanks.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Who Cares. The USAPA, BPR, C&BL's and all other official sounding acronyms from these clowns will all be thrown in the trash in the not too distant future. The faster they dig their DFR Grave, the faster this will all be over. Luckily they're all digging as fast as humanly possible. Can't wait to see 54% impose their will unimpeded on the other 46%.

USAPA is a pathetic, marginalized, sorry joke that has nothing but failure in it's future.

Well, for the sake of argument, let's say your conjecture comes true.

Although the westwhiners somehow think that a federal court will overturn an election already certified by the federal government and USAPA will be thrown out, that doesn't mean ALPA would automatically come back in. Or, if somehow the westwhiners actually are able to bankrupt and liquidate USAPA, that doesn't mean ALPA would automatically come back in.

In the interim, the pilot group would likely be non-union. There is little chance that another election will bring ALPA back (at least not for 5 - 10 years when the esat pilots are again retiring in droves.) There is also little chance that ANY follow on organization will get enough votes to be certified. Hence, USAirways pilots will be non-union.

Think you'll ever get a new contract then, westwhiners?

Think your buddy Doug will institute the Nicolau list, westwhiners?

More likely you will see LOA 93 (minus the good parts) imposed on YOU westwhiners as well as the east.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[UtterlyUdder]

Cult? Jeez Jim, you worked with us for how many years? Thanks.

Pi, you've noticed this too? One would think that Boeing Boy worked for AWA. He hides his bitterness in appearing oh so calm and rational and reasonable. 🙄 However, he hides these things with a light filmy curtain that is easily seen through. 🙄 He posts far more than anyone else on this forum which leads this poster to think his bitterness runs deep and wide. I feel sorry for him that he just can't let go. 🙁 Old ALPO people never die, they just fade away, so fade away already Boeing Boy! B)

 

[Tiger 1050]

Well, for the sake of argument, let's say your conjecture comes true.

Although the westwhiners somehow think that a federal court will overturn an election already certified by the federal government and USAPA will be thrown out, that doesn't mean ALPA would automatically come back in. Or, if somehow the westwhiners actually are able to bankrupt and liquidate USAPA, that doesn't mean ALPA would automatically come back in.

In the interim, the pilot group would likely be non-union. There is little chance that another election will bring ALPA back (at least not for 5 - 10 years when the esat pilots are again retiring in droves.) There is also little chance that ANY follow on organization will get enough votes to be certified. Hence, USAirways pilots will be non-union.

Think you'll ever get a new contract then, westwhiners?

Think your buddy Doug will institute the Nicolau list, westwhiners?

More likely you will see LOA 93 (minus the good parts) imposed on YOU westwhiners as well as the east.

Be careful what you wish for.

"westwhiners?" I seem to remember it was the east who activated the CIRP when the Nic came out. Talk about whiners...

As far as LOA 93? MY SENIORITY IS NOT FOR SALE!!!!!

But feel free to continue to call us names if it makes you feel better...

 

[Metroyet]

Well, for the sake of argument, let's say your conjecture comes true.

Although the westwhiners somehow think that a federal court will overturn an election already certified by the federal government and USAPA will be thrown out, that doesn't mean ALPA would automatically come back in. Or, if somehow the westwhiners actually are able to bankrupt and liquidate USAPA, that doesn't mean ALPA would automatically come back in.

In the interim, the pilot group would likely be non-union. There is little chance that another election will bring ALPA back (at least not for 5 - 10 years when the esat pilots are again retiring in droves.) There is also little chance that ANY follow on organization will get enough votes to be certified. Hence, USAirways pilots will be non-union.

Think you'll ever get a new contract then, westwhiners?

Think your buddy Doug will institute the Nicolau list, westwhiners?

More likely you will see LOA 93 (minus the good parts) imposed on YOU westwhiners as well as the east.

Be careful what you wish for.

1. Clever name calling. Did your youngest Granddaughter come up with that one? Probably not. I'm guessing She's in Graduate School by now and long past such things.

2. Hate to break it to you but US Air is currently a "non-union" carrier. The company is running roughshod over USAPA and there is absolutely NOTHING they can do about it. Also, 40+ percent of the pilot group...including it's largest domicile, refuse to acknowledge your presence. USAPA is already on the Slab. Keep shoveling money to seham though, he'll fix your broken career for you...(on the backs of those who actually had one in the first place, but that's another story)

3. The West doesn't want a contract. You do.

4. Wouldn't LOA 93 for the west mean a common contract? Sure would. HELLO NIC!!