US Pilot Labor Thread--ALL Pilot/Union Issues Discussed Here

[tazz]

When we on the west say that usapa does not represent us we mean that the union, as founded, does not represent our interests under DOH. We are saying that we reject your constitution and bylaws. We fully understand that usapa will go through the motions of representing us otherwise. We know they will process grievances and send someone to hold our hands when we are under a sect. 19 investigation. Heck, they even had a local council meeting yesterday. The fact is that we don't care about those things and as much as you on the east would like to think we on the west are uncomfortable without a union nipple I say you are wrong.

The DFR's are and will be directed to the right places, the basic foundation of usapa. It is clear to all that you founded this thing in an attempt to undermine the binding arbitration. Problem is that you all agreed to it going in. The judicial system will have to sort this out and until they do we on the west will continue to reject usapa and all that it stands for.

Remember, we're not whining that the union does not represent us. We're telling you that it doesn't. It won't until it is based on fairness.

P.S. Calm down! Save your anger for post judicial decisions.

 

[tazz]

I believe the contracts have a very specific process for disciplinary hearings. The CBA is part of that process, but I don't think it allows for any other outsiders. And former ALPA reps are outsiders to the process. Fact of life; time to get over it.

I fully understand this. If it were me in the hot seat, however, I would like NOT to hava a usapa rep there. I heard that they HAD to be there. Not right.

 

[V1cut]

And in that argument, you will lose. In the legal world, the baseline will be measured by how and in what manner did USAPA fulfill its obligatory responsibilites under the law as the NMB sanctioned CBA...they have, they do, they will. That you have rejected it only makes their case.

That you deem it inherently unfair is akin to you complaining about the size of your johnson...it is what it is. You may disagree with it at all levels based on your particular perspective...the court recognizes no such individualistic perspectives...they look at actual performance....

Which you just brilliantly illustrated.

 

[EastUS]

Remember, we're not whining that the union does not represent us. We're telling you that it doesn't. It won't until it is based on fairness.

Said "fairness" being the notion that the interests of an undisciplined, self-obsessed, narcicistic minority should naturally hold sway over all others involved.....

Understood. Kindly do forgive all who simply aren't able to agree with such complete and utter insanity.

It's a Union...not a YOU-nion.

 

[V1cut]

"We are saying that we reject your constitution and bylaws."

(posted by tazz)



And that changes things...how? I rejected many or most of ALPA's CB's....didn't change my luck.

Pipefitters' dont get to disregard their unions CB's....just because they dont like them.


Some worldchanging event you are after here..especially considering you have more than once acknowledged that USAPA does fulfill it's day-to-day obligations to you out west...you just don't like some CB's...

good luck with that.

( There's a few of the Ten Commandments I never liked too.....)

 

[nostradamus]

The nicolau award did not follow alpa policy. Plain and simple.

In addition to this, alpa acted in a corrupt manner when its pilot neutrals had conflict of interests. alpa was positioning united airline pilots for an impending merger with Us Airways. The frequent use of "we" and "our" opinion in the flawed nicolau award proves that the decision was made mostly by the "neutral pilots" not 85 year old Mr Nicolau. This is evident now that united alpa wants to change merger policy back to length of service because they now have one thousand pilots on furlough and counting.

The new Northwest Delta merger seniority will be announced next week. Expect date of hire to be used with fences and restrictions. alpa thinks this will help their long term survival, but it will not.

 

[Ardenian]

Former US Airways pilot will mediate talks between Southwest, ground workers 3:52 PM Thu, Nov 13, 2008
The National Mediation Board has named Gerry McGuckin to mediate contract talks between Southwest Airlines and its ground workers, represented by Local 555 of the Transport Workers Union.

Mr. McGuckin is a former US Airways pilot and Air Line Pilots Association negotiator. For Mr. McGuckin's full resume, keep reading.

From the National Mediation Board:

Gerry McGuckin joined the National Mediation Board as a Mediator in September, 2007. He serves the Board in airline and railroad cases, including Grievance Mediation cases.

Prior to joining the NMB, Gerry completed a career as a commercial airline pilot for a number of major airlines, retiring in October 2006 from US Airways. During his twenty nine year airline career, he gained extensive labor relations experience, including merger committee co-chairman for the PeoplExpress pilots, elected representative on the ALPA Master Executive Council for both Braniff International Airways and US Airways, and ALPA chief negotiator and negotiator for over twelve years at US Airways which involved crafting labor agreements for over six thousand pilots. In 2003, Mr. McGuckin was involved in a highly controversial negotiation, where McGuckin personally directed that the US Airways pilots surrender hundreds of millions of Defined Benefit pension obligations to US Airways, in return for ALPA receiving the ability to manage the follow-on Defined Contribution Plan, while collecting all management fees with no oversight. Gerry’s personal compensation from ALPA for this pivotal negotiation has not yet been determined, but he has been named as a defendant in several lawsuits relating to this single event. Some industry analysts feel this was an important motivator behind the movement which led to ALPA’s de-certification at the US Airways property earlier this year.

By 2004, the US Airways pilots had lost all confidence in the ability of Mr. McGuckin’s Negotiating committee to represent them, without putting personal gain first. In April of that year, one-half of his committee was unceremoniously removed by new pilot representatives. Within a week, Mr. McGuckin and the remaining committee member abruptly resigned. His resignation letter has been come to be called the “I’m taking all my marbles and going homeâ€￾ letter due to what many call its unprofessional content.

Mr. McGuckin ended his career at the airlines in relative obscurity, being ostracized by his peers, yet remaining as a behind-the-scenes advisor to MEC Chairman William Pollock.

Gerry's military career with the United States Air Force and Air Force Reserve spanned over twenty seven years. Initially serving as crew chief on the F-86 F aircraft, he retired in 1998, as a Lt. Col., Flight Commander, having flown the C-141 aircraft for twenty three years.

Gerry is a graduate of the City College of New York with a Bachelor's degree in Psychology; he also holds a Master's degree in Business Management, emphasizing labor relations studies, from Central Michigan University.

This is another one going around the web.

No matter what we all individually think of USAPA, this is why we do not want to be anywhere near ALPA.

Corruption is corruption.

Can't we all agree on this one point?

 

[V1cut]

Yep...but the west still thinks it was all about Nic.

Nic was only the last swing of the hammer that the east would take...

I flew with that $$&$^...I know all too well where he was coming from..do you, tazz? No. How could you...not your fault...but you've been "wronged" by some CB's...?
There's no talking to the west, though...the only thing they understand is a lawsuit.

And we're happy to oblige.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

This is another one going around the web.

No matter what we all individually think of USAPA, this is why we do not want to be anywhere near ALPA.

Corruption is corruption.

Can't we all agree on this one point?

My sympathies. That couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch........

Meanwhile, what makes you think that usapa is immune to a similar "Gerry McGuckin infection?"

What internal process is in place which would prevent such a thing from happening again?

 

[nostradamus]

"In recognition of their efforts it was not been an easy task, I could not conclude this Opininon without thanking Captain Brucia and Captain Gillen for their immeasurable guidance and assistance."

George Nicolau arbitrator

gillen a united pilot that knew a 4th attempt at a merger with Us Airways was in the making.

brucia, pilot for continental where alpa "leader" john prater is a pilot

"it was not been an easy task" is a direct quote from the award, by the way.

 

[V1cut]

"That couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch........"(NLC)

Back at ya, junior. Your bedwetting tendencies have no bearing on what may "possibly be" under USAPA.

If you are so conflicted with "inner turmoil" that you can't function as a flight crewmember...then don't.

Many of us have weathered much worse than your paranoia.

 

[EastUS]

Yep...but the west still thinks it was all about Nic.

Nic was only the last swing of the hammer that the east would take...

Yep..and the truly "funny" thing about all the contemporary west fantasizing that "It's all about the nic!!" can be seen via multiple west postings prior to the election...promising that should Alpa be voted out, that the nic would take effect immediately. It was actually "promised" by west posters that the only way to even "mitigate" the nic was to keep Alpa. Given their abundant "faith" in that back then; It's truly amusing to now see that, through the west looking glass/kaleidoscope/horse blinders/whatever...removing Alpa was "all" about nic.

For any/all wanting a really good laugh at the conveniently ever-changing landscape of west perspective...."principles"..and of course "integrity"..I suggest visiting the archives on just these boards alone. Folks...No one could make this kind of insanity up...not even for daytime television...

 

[EastUS]

It is clear to all that you founded this thing in an attempt to undermine the binding arbitration.

What a conveniently twisted little crock of BS. Hmm..refresh my memory..wasn't the AWA pilot group itself attempting to establish an in-house union?....prior to the nic nonsense of course? Isn't it more the easilly seen, actual truth was that you people would have voted for Satan himself if he could have brought you nic gift wrapped? No?..Then why can such snippets as reposted below so easilly be found? 🙄

QUOTE (Leonidas @ Apr 9 2008, 01:35 PM)
Alpa is going to suck, just not as bad as usapa.

Flyzforfood April 6, 2008:
I will be the first to say ALPA has it's problems.

Jetmonkey April 7, 2008
Better than what your Usap dorks are gonna do...Alpa definitely is nothing to cheer about, but ....

LeonidasFeb 24 2008, 02:10 AM: The only conundrum is for usapa, it the TA does go away, then the Nic. list is effective that day, if it stays, you need separate ratification to get a contract, eithe way it looks like usapa wining would implement the Nic. quicker than national.

From LSS's Apr 9 2008, 02:15 PM observations on the pre-election propoganda from Alpa and the west: Since many of the West pilots posting here and on the ALPA National boards have unequivocally stated that voting for USAPA would ensure the implementation of the NIC award (in fact the East MEC Chairman has made the same claim), for the life of me I can't understand, why oh why any Westie would vote for FUDALPA, when electing USAPA as the CBA would only hasten the ushering in and guaranteeing the NIC ! Strange behavior to say the least!"

"Strange behavior to say the least"...Indeed.

Did it even ever momentarily occur to ANY of you people out west that at least one small, but very decent and fully compelling reason to vote against whatever you wanted, was based upon your own pathetic and downright despicable behavior? Since your all about your little "Army" of Leonidas out there..I can think of no finer poster child for your "integrity".."principles"..and "morals", so here's but a few minor bits of charity and wisdom from that very source:


QUOTE (Leonidas @ Apr 9 2008, 10:50 PM)
Holy crap you are thick. Your MEC was going to use the china "leverage" to get parity, i.e. we want parity with the west to operate these flights. Well do you get it yet? Do you get what the west just did to you?

QUOTE (Leonidas @ Apr 9 2008, 04:10 PM)
get ready for little old awa pilot's to clean your clock again,

To a person that "individual" assumed to be a Flight Attnedant: Leonidas Dec 14 2007, 11:33 PM"No you won't, you will shut up and get the captain his drink, peanuts and whatever else he tells you to do, that's a promise."

 

[Metroyet]

"We are saying that we reject your constitution and bylaws."

(posted by tazz)



And that changes things...how? I rejected many or most of ALPA's CB's....didn't change my luck.

Pipefitters' dont get to disregard their unions CB's....just because they dont like them.


Some worldchanging event you are after here..especially considering you have more than once acknowledged that USAPA does fulfill it's day-to-day obligations to you out west...you just don't like some CB's...

good luck with that.

( There's a few of the Ten Commandments I never liked too.....)

Christ, how many times does this need to be said before it sinks in to you and the rest of the 1999-6-years-on furlough-crowd? Hide behind whatever rule makes you happy. Run to whatever Teacher you think is going to force somebody into something because you made the playground rules. It will Never, Never, Never work. The only currency a union has is unity. You will never have that. You will never get a contract. You will Never be able to act as labor union, clearly for the benefit of all pilots. The whole USAPA premise is flawed.

Do you Actually think This fake union can exist forever whilst, 40% of the pilot group, representing by far your largest base, want's to Kill your fake union? What do you think you're going to ever accomplish? Nothing. I'll say it again, USAPA hiding behind the RLA and ignoring Contract law is like a Hippo Hiding behind a mushroom...an Easy Kill.

Stay Tuned...

 

[EastUS]

...an Easy Kill.

Then make it so..otherwise shut up with the incessant whining and standard-issue puppy kibble....