US Pilot Labor Thread--ALL Pilot/Union Issues Discussed Here

[Tiger 1050]

Hey Mach....er...uh, V1cut easy with the insults. You are gonna get kicked off the boards again and have to come up with a whole new name to raise your blood pressure to stroke levels. V1cut is just too cool of a screen-name. Plus you'd look too much like Oldie if ya stroked out... Confusion would set in. It would be just terrible.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Remember also, that there never has been a pilot fired because of dues non-payment.

This is true, but the westwhiners always manage to take this out of context. The reason no one has been fired for non-payment is because in the instances where the CP showed up with security to escort the pilot off the property, the pilot in question invariably came up with a dues check. No one has been fired for non-payment because everyone eventually paid. As will the westwhiners.

Christ, how many times does this need to be said before it sinks in to you and the rest of the 1999-6-years-on furlough-crowd? Hide behind whatever rule makes you happy. Run to whatever Teacher you think is going to force somebody into something because you made the playground rules. It will Never, Never, Never work. The only currency a union has is unity. You will never have that. You will never get a contract. You will Never be able to act as labor union, clearly for the benefit of all pilots. The whole USAPA premise is flawed.

Do you Actually think This fake union can exist forever whilst, 40% of the pilot group, representing by far your largest base, want's to Kill your fake union? What do you think you're going to ever accomplish? Nothing. I'll say it again, USAPA hiding behind the RLA and ignoring Contract law is like a Hippo Hiding behind a mushroom...an Easy Kill.

Stay Tuned...

Your westwhining rhetoric is getting really old. Federal law and the NMB do not find USAPA to be a "fake" union. You can continue to have that delusion if you want, but that doesn't change the fact of the situation.

And I don't think that USAPA will necessarily last forever, but it will last as long as it has 60% support. Your 40% is irrelevant in the final analysis of survival of USAPA. (Did you miss that math class in third grade?) In short, 40% does not trump 60% in this incarnation. Absent another merger, USAPA will be here until at least 2012 when the attrition again starts in earnest. And, after that, we really don't care what the westwhiners come up with to replace it. We'll be retired.

"Easy kill," you say? Is that anything like, "you won't even get 200 cards"? You westwhiners LOVE the tough rhetoric based on fantasy. I'll bet, as a group, you are great at computer games as most of you seem to exist as the heroes in your own imaginations, but are simply powerless in the real world. Learn the difference or it will bite you in the butt...and that may mean having to pull your head out of the same location.

 

[Megasnoop]

I don't think any west pilot has voluntarily accepted usapa's help in disciplinary hearings. Some I know of requested former alpa reps but usapa would not allow that. The usapa reps bullied their way into said hearings but weren't allowed to speak for the pilot.

Other than those westies who are being investigated for harassment and creating a hostile work environment for west pilots who want to become usapa reps, how many discipline hearings have there been? Me thinks the number approaches zero. Both contracts are still in place regarding discipline. But usapa is now the CBA. As Parker put it in his latest training center comments, wherever ALPO once appeared (427 times), substitute USAPA. For a rank and file West pilot to represent a west pilot in a hearing as opposed to using reps, the former would have to be a member in good standing to represent the latter.

Usapa has no choice by virtue of its position as CBA to represent all pilots in discipline hearings. If usapa wasnt at the hearings it presents a DFR issue. Mitch didnt have much choice in the matter. “Bullied their way inâ€￾ is way out of line and you know it, Tazz.

Snooper, AKA Frank the Wide-Body (in more ways than one) FO.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

"That couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch........"(NLC)

Back at ya, junior. Your bedwetting tendencies have no bearing on what may "possibly be" under USAPA.

If you are so conflicted with "inner turmoil" that you can't function as a flight crewmember...then don't.

Many of us have weathered much worse than your paranoia.

Typical empy eastie response.

How 'bout responding with some answers for a change? Oh, but I guess you may not have the answers.

Where are the protections from potential usapa internal graft? We already know that usaps do not care one iota about the west. Is it possible this might be taken a bit further - say with your retirement funds?

Now who's "conflicted?"

 

[EastUS]

Now who's "conflicted?"

:blink: Anyone have an english translation available for any of this? 🙄

 

[PA18]

The National Mediation Board has named Gerry McGuckin to mediate contract talks between Southwest Airlines and its ground workers, represented by Local 555 of the Transport Workers Union.

Mr. McGuckin is a former US Airways pilot and Air Line Pilots Association negotiator.

This is another one going around the web.

No matter what we all individually think of USAPA, this is why we do not want to be anywhere near ALPA.

Corruption is corruption.

Can't we all agree on this one point?

Another former ALPA management stooge has also benefited from his office to find a nice, cushy retirement job.

Mike Tosi is now mediating on behalf of AMR management in contract talks with the APA.

And yes, I meant to write it that way. Even though he is supposed to be a neutral mediator, when Tosi was an ALPA MEC rep at US East, he almost always acted on behalf of management. So why would he change now?

Tosi was not only the only ALPA rep, but the only pilot that I can remember ever having a retirement party thrown for him, by management, in the US Airways Club.

What does that tell you?

If I were an American Airlines pilot, I would be very concerned about this.

 

[Megasnoop]

Some honest talk from Parker in the latest training room meeting:

"That union was thrown out, now the company is bound to negotiate with that group [usapa]."

"That is an issue that you are going to have to come to grips with. You guys have to understand, that's your union."

On dues violation terminations: "The contract clearly states what the company has to do. I cant tell you more clearly than that."

"The contract is quite clear after you (eliminate) ALPA, you have USAPA."

(In the contract we see) "That 437 times ALPA. We now need to interpret as USAPA. This is black and white. That language that says ALPA now says USAPA."

Again on Termination: "Please dont put us in that position. But you ask me a direct question, Ill give you a direct answer, we don't have a choice contractually."

Then there was one of their 25-year CAs moaning: "Biggest thing hanging over my head is USAPA...Its an insult to everyone in here that they represent us...MY job is not threatened so much by this industry as it is by USAPA. Theyre telling me that youre going to fire me if I dont fund this nonsense over there. Thats whats hanging over my head. Are you going to fire me?"

Parkers reply: "The contract clearly states what the company has to do. I cant tell you more clearly than that. At the end of that language, once the process has happened, the company has to terminate."

Funny, but that CA said he dropped from 880 to 1280 on the list. Mercy me! STILL a West CA. Only getting a 1-year delay on bidding the heavy metal (Oh, I fogot, none of them really want to move back east). Wasnt too hard to figure out who he is. Hes right on one thing. His job is threatened by usapa. If he doesnt pay, Parker told him he would be fired.

Bottom line, as it has been since April 2008, if you dont pay, youre fire bait.

Snooper (AKA George the gear jerker)

 

[EastUS]

Tosi was not only the only ALPA rep, but the only pilot that I can remember ever having a retirement party thrown for him, by management, in the US Airways Club.

What does that tell you?

Such observations will merely discomfit a very few west people. Within the extremely limited confines of the microcosm that is west "wisdom"; It's "known by all" (apparantly, at least within those sufficiently brain-baked under the desert sun) that ridding the place of Alpoid corruption wasn't even a thought for the east...and it was "all about the nic"....

 

[nic4us]

This is another one going around the web.

No matter what we all individually think of USAPA, this is why we do not want to be anywhere near ALPA.

Corruption is corruption.

Can't we all agree on this one point?

Ardenian,

This April will mark the 1 year anniversary of USAPA, and the countdown to the card drive ALPA will start to get reinstated on the property. Contrary to popular belief, the West does not want ALPA back. We too have seen their BS and do not care for it. Just look at how they sided with the east in the Nic decision and tried to steamroll the West. There are ALPA loyalist over here just as on the east, but many former ALPA reps on the West are very disgrunteled with Herndon.

We are working to come up with an alternative to both ALPA and USAPA, because neither is a viable solution. Believe me when I say that level heads are thinking way outside the box searching for a solution.

So to answere your question, yes we can agree on this point. I for one do not wish to see ALPA return in its present form.

 

[luvthe9]

Another former ALPA management stooge has also benefited from his office to find a nice, cushy retirement job.

Mike Tosi is now mediating on behalf of AMR management in contract talks with the APA.

And yes, I meant to write it that way. Even though he is supposed to be a neutral mediator, when Tosi was an ALPA MEC rep at US East, he almost always acted on behalf of management. So why would he change now?

Tosi was not only the only ALPA rep, but the only pilot that I can remember ever having a retirement party thrown for him, by management, in the US Airways Club.

What does that tell you?

If I were an American Airlines pilot, I would be very concerned about this.

He is pure scum!!!!!!

 

[nic4us]

I have not watched the crew news yet but from what I have read on this thread it appears the company believes USAPA has indeed inherited all contracts, and all portions of all contracts. Yes they replace ALPA with USAPA in section 29, but that would mean they replace ALPA with USAPA in section 1, and the TA, and the Nic arbitraion, and all 437 times you need to make the change.

So yes indeed, West pilots in the end will have to pay dues or agency shop fees, and the company will have to install the Nic as the seniority list upon implimentation of a joint contract. The company may have to live by the Nic now if it is determined that joint contract talks were indeed cancelled by the East Mec's refusal to attend joint contract negotiations. Yeah those pesky contracts USAPA inherited entitle them to dues, but they also entitle them to the very thing they were founded to weasel out of.

 

[EastUS]

We are working to come up with an alternative to both ALPA and USAPA, because neither is a viable solution. Believe me when I say that level heads are thinking way outside the box searching for a solution.

Your sentiments on Alpa, imho, are fully commendable..but..umm...as for "level heads are thinking way outside the box searching for a solution."?? Spare me/us all. Your very screen name is "nic4us". So?..rather than work at all, in any way, with an established Union alternative to Alpa?..you're still evidently adamant in pursuing the obscenely skewed, made-in-Alpa abortion that is nic?...Hokay then 🙄 Sound the buzzer..Bzzzzt...thank you for playing. Nothing new to see here folks...move along. <_<

 

[EastUS]

... but they also entitle them to the very thing they were founded to weasel out of.

Well..flying under the entirely false colors of "level heads" didn't last none too long Folks?..Let's just revisit this poster's immediately above expressed notions on Alpa. Mere moments later...it's incomprehensible that Alpa was dumped for a plethora of reasons. Not now, even seconds later, at all possible to even consider it seems..whenever one's smoking off the nic hookah.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I have not watched the crew news yet but from what I have read on this thread it appears the company believes USAPA has indeed inherited all contracts, and all portions of all contracts. Yes they replace ALPA with USAPA in section 29, but that would mean they replace ALPA with USAPA in section 1, and the TA, and the Nic arbitraion, and all 437 times you need to make the change.

So yes indeed, West pilots in the end will have to pay dues or agency shop fees, and the company will have to install the Nic as the seniority list upon implimentation of a joint contract. The company may have to live by the Nic now if it is determined that joint contract talks were indeed cancelled by the East Mec's refusal to attend joint contract negotiations. Yeah those pesky contracts USAPA inherited entitle them to dues, but they also entitle them to the very thing they were founded to weasel out of.

Uh...excuse me. I suggest you watch the entire meeting.

In it, some DELETED BY MODERATOR tries to corner Parker on whether the company believes in binding arbitration or not. It was a feeble attempt, and Parker is way too smart for that DELETED BY MODERATOR. But, the DELETED BY MODERATOR DID, in fact, get Parker to say that the Nicolau was an internal ALPA process and that the company was not a party to the that arbitration. Seems like Parker agrees with what USAPA has been saying all along about the Nic being an internal ALPA process.

But, in the end, the courts will decide. Meantime, Parker is NOT going implement Nicolau just because the DELETED BY MODERATOR keep WHINING. So STOP asking him to do that. He's said more or less the same thing at every meeting in PHX since April. He's certainly a patient man; I would be laughing in your faces by now when you keep bringing the same thing up expecting a different answer.

MOD NOTE: What part of no namecalling didn't you understand?

 

[Freighterguynow]

MY job is not threatened so much by this industry as it is by USAPA.

That guy (and a whole lot more) needs to check the foreclosure rates in Nevada and Arizona and get real.