US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/26- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Crzipilot]

Allegiant's Pay scale...

Capt F/O
10 124 61
09 120 61
08 116 61
07 113 61
06 110 61
05 107 59
04 102 57
03 95 55
02 87 53
01 61 41


Bases: LAS LAX PIE IFP SFB IWA FLL BLI

# Purchasing 18 more MD80s from SAS
# 52 MD80s by end of 2010 and 60 aircraft by end of 2011
# GRR to open as new pilot domicile in April
# Allegiant focuses on the leisure market in 45 smaller cities, connecting them nonstop to Las Vegas, Orlando and Tampa-St. Petersburg
# Marketing relationship with 30 resorts in Las Vegas

MD80: 47

Pilots: 314 Active

 

[Black Swan]

Black Swan,

You never answered my question. If this goes badly for USAPA, will you take the BPR to task for pushing it? I'll make you a deal, if it goes well I will write them a letter of thanks. The problem is, I can't see any "well". What is the up side to this? IMHO the suit was taken for a couple of reasons: 1) To stop the phone calls, mailings and emails 2) To show the west pilots who was boss. 3) To spend the west's money on this so there would be less money to sue for a DFR they knew was coming.
The problem I see with that plan is that they only know a few of the people that were doing the phone calls and some could have been east pilots. I believe the west pilots will spend every last dime they have to fight for what they think is right. So USAPA has spent thousands and thousands of our dollars and put a tremendous strain on 20+ pilots and their families lives for no good purpose. What can possibly be the upside?

There is no upside for anyone in this. From what I understand, they were offered a way out. Does this include an admission that they did what they are charged with? Why don't they take it and end it all? From what I have heard, they were clogging all the phone lines, including the SAFETY HOTLINE. I say if they offer an admission and apology, it ends.

 

[cleardirect]

WOW!

You guys really were the highest paid pilots in the industry. So according to the USAPA lawyer arguing the LOA 93 snap back you guys gave up $380,000.00 per pilot per year. But you are still making what you make now, so that means you all were making somewhere around $530,000 prior to 2001. I think I found the reason why US Airways went bankrupt twice in very short order.

So following the logic by the USAPA attorney the east pilots gave up $9.3 Billion of 7 years.

Quick math will tell us that ALL IN ALL, these three concessionary agreements total approximately $1 billion (dollars) PER YEAR for a period of 7 years, or the life of Company’s ATSB loan. The only problem was that the prior concessionary LOAs weren’t enough. $7 BILLION (dollars) wasn’t enough.
The pilots of US Airways have given nearly $9.3 BILLION (dollars)

If you have 3500 pilots on the list at the time that would be $2.65 million per pilot. Over 7 years that comes out to $380,000 per year. Ladies and gentlemen it is really hard to make your case to an arbitrator when the first thing out of the lawyer’s mouth are facts that cannot be reconciled with reality. How is it the east pilots gave up that much money if you were not making anywhere near than much. Something is wrong with the math.

Besides taken at face value if a company cannot survive at taking a $9.3 billion cost savings just from the pilot let alone the other labor groups plus the other bankruptcy savings. That is a company that deserves to die. Now tell me again how US Airways was going to be in business without the merger?

 

[cleardirect]

There is no upside for anyone in this. From what I understand, they were offered a way out. Does this include an admission that they did what they are charged with? Why don't they take it and end it all? From what I have heard, they were clogging all the phone lines, including the SAFETY HOTLINE. I say if they offer an admission and apology, it ends.

Do you even know what the charges are?

Here is the disconnect for you and most of the east guys. The charges on the table at the moment are FEDERAL RICO that is what is being appealed. Not phone calls or web posts. With that charge carries some heavy consequences. What did you just say here? Admit that the defendants clogged the phone lines. In what world are phone calls considered RICO? Can you point to the RICO laws and show us?

Why would any defendant admit to conspiracy and racketeering when all you guys ever complain about is phone calls? Read the charges, read the dismissal, educate yourself then figure out why the defendants want nothing to do with admitting to RICO.

BTW the only apology will be coming from USAPA.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

There is no upside for anyone in this. From what I understand, they were offered a way out. Does this include an admission that they did what they are charged with? Why don't they take it and end it all? From what I have heard, they were clogging all the phone lines, including the SAFETY HOTLINE. I say if they offer an admission and apology, it ends.

Go read the suit, and see which named defendant was alleged to have clogged the SAFETY HOTLINE. Guess what, NOT ONE named defendant was alleged to have done that. Why?

 

[inverted]

Do you even know what the charges are?

Here is the disconnect for you and most of the east guys. The charges on the table at the moment are FEDERAL RICO that is what is being appealed. Not phone calls or web posts. With that charge carries some heavy consequences. What did you just say here? Admit that the defendants clogged the phone lines. In what world are phone calls considered RICO? Can you point to the RICO laws and show us?

Why would any defendant admit to conspiracy and racketeering when all you guys ever complain about is phone calls? Read the charges, read the dismissal, educate yourself then figure out why the defendants want nothing to do with admitting to RICO.

BTW the only apology will be coming from USAPA.

Those west pilots should have thought about their families as they were dialing....what a juvenile action. It reflects on the entire west group. What is their excuse?

inverted

 

[Black Swan]

Go read the suit, and see which named defendant was alleged to have clogged the SAFETY HOTLINE. Guess what, NOT ONE named defendant was alleged to have done that. Why?

Sorry I triggered the phone tree.....I really don't care. But if you guys get this riled up over it, I say let it go on!

 

[Black Swan]

WOW!

You guys really were the highest paid pilots in the industry. So according to the USAPA lawyer arguing the LOA 93 snap back you guys gave up $380,000.00 per pilot per year. But you are still making what you make now, so that means you all were making somewhere around $530,000 prior to 2001. I think I found the reason why US Airways went bankrupt twice in very short order.

So following the logic by the USAPA attorney the east pilots gave up $9.3 Billion of 7 years.

Quick math will tell us that ALL IN ALL, these three concessionary agreements total approximately $1 billion (dollars) PER YEAR for a period of 7 years, or the life of Company’s ATSB loan. The only problem was that the prior concessionary LOAs weren’t enough. $7 BILLION (dollars) wasn’t enough.
The pilots of US Airways have given nearly $9.3 BILLION (dollars)

If you have 3500 pilots on the list at the time that would be $2.65 million per pilot. Over 7 years that comes out to $380,000 per year. Ladies and gentlemen it is really hard to make your case to an arbitrator when the first thing out of the lawyer’s mouth are facts that cannot be reconciled with reality. How is it the east pilots gave up that much money if you were not making anywhere near than much. Something is wrong with the math.

Besides taken at face value if a company cannot survive at taking a $9.3 billion cost savings just from the pilot let alone the other labor groups plus the other bankruptcy savings. That is a company that deserves to die. Now tell me again how US Airways was going to be in business without the merger?

Hey Clear, have you figured out who had the better contract all those years? It certainly wasn't you guys. I know one thing, you are the one who is twisting the facts. The second thing is this- if we win on this one, you guys will never get a Yes vote. Take your snapshot of a few years and make it what you always want it to be, we were failing, Blah Blah Blah, therefore, I get to take everything...... If we get this thing, it is over for you as far as a joint contract...............

 

[Pi brat]

There is no upside for anyone in this. From what I understand, they were offered a way out. Does this include an admission that they did what they are charged with? Why don't they take it and end it all? From what I have heard, they were clogging all the phone lines, including the SAFETY HOTLINE. I say if they offer an admission and apology, it ends.

Cleardirect sums it up pretty well, so I won't go into more of the details. I used to think like you, but was educated by an EAST friend and took the time to learn about it, not just take USAPA's word for it. I encourage everyone to do the same, this is a terrible thing to let go on. Would you admit to a RICO claim just to get out of a lawsuit?

 

[nic4us]

There is no upside for anyone in this. From what I understand, they were offered a way out. Does this include an admission that they did what they are charged with? Why don't they take it and end it all? From what I have heard, they were clogging all the phone lines, including the SAFETY HOTLINE. I say if they offer an admission and apology, it ends.

You say offer an admission and apology?

How about, usapa offers an admission and apology for filing a SLAPP against innocent individuals, then offers monetary compensation in lieu of a countersuit. Would save them alot of money in the future.

 

[Black Swan]

You all have got to like the PAY FREEZE argument. Just like a TRAINING FREEZE, it ends at a certain date....................

 

[Pi brat]

Those west pilots should have thought about their families as they were dialing....what a juvenile action. It reflects on the entire west group. What is their excuse?

inverted

Quiz time. How many of the defendants were named for making calls to the hotline? How would you or you spouse like it if you were sued for millions of dollars for you board venting?

 

[Pi brat]

Sorry I triggered the phone tree.....I really don't care. But if you guys get this riled up over it, I say let it go on!

What phone tree? I'm an east MIGS. You should be riled up, if not for moral reasons, just for what it has and will cost you.

 

[nic4us]

Those west pilots should have thought about their families as they were dialing....what a juvenile action. It reflects on the entire west group. What is their excuse?

inverted

Only 6 or 8 of the named 24 defendants are accused of making phone calls, and of those 1 or 2 made as few as 10 calls total over a few day period.

Many of the remaining defendants do not need an excuse, because they are innocent of the charges against them. What they need is an ambulance chasing lawyer, willing to work for a piece of the award. If they find 1 or as many as a dozen or so, and file in each innocent party's home state, usapa is DONE.

 

[inverted]

Quiz time. How many of the defendants were named for making calls to the hotline? How would you or you spouse like it if you were sued for millions of dollars for you board venting?

I know, it is a hard lesson to learn. No all is lost, it will build some character though.




inverted