Work On Nwa Jets?

[PlayTheOdds]

I ask for evidence to support your position and this is what you provide? Soory but you will have to come up with something better.

Answer the question.

Who gets hired?

 

[777 fixer]

Answer the question.

Who gets hired?

Amazing, you still give no evidence to support your position. Instead you try and turn the dicussion around. Well to answer you're "question" the guys on layoff get their jobs back. But we all already knew that now did'nt we.

Now would you please tell us in your world what would be a better system? And would you also give evidence that recall rights have crippled the industry. By the way, have you worked in the industry long enough to make that observation? Please answer the "question".

Noticed you had no retort for fact that unions do not control what airlines charge for tickets, routes they fly or type aircraft they buy. Has a very large part on how well an airline does don't you think?

 

[AMFAMAN]

The company receives twenty new resumes from exceptional mechanics also.

How does a company know a mechanic is exceptional based on a resume. Anyone can write a lot of crap on a resume, I did. :blink:

Airlines only know your worth after they hire you.

 

[local 12 proud]

How does a company know a mechanic is exceptional based on a resume. Anyone can write a lot of crap on a resume, I did. :blink:

Airlines only know your worth after they hire you.

NWA probably first consults with their Master SCAB on what an exceptional mechanic entails before they actually hire, seeing how he is an expert at all things, ya know

 

[PlayTheOdds]

But we all already knew that now did'nt we?

Yes we did know that, thank you for being honest about it also.

Now would you please tell us in your world what would be a better system?

Advancement should be based on performance, qualifications, attendance, natural leadership and personality, not by what day you were hired on, who clocked in first or your birth date. Lets give natural selection a chance other than who can hang out the longest.

And would you also give evidence that recall rights have crippled the industry.

No, I cannot give you any written evidence. I'm just stating the obvious. Lets say I lived in Dallas, was fresh out of high school and was interested in the maintenance side of the aviation industry. After I did my research of the local industry and learned that it was going to be ten years at least, providing there were no more layoffs, before I would even be considered for the job, there is no way I would choose the field. That also goes for the guy that wants to get out of the one horse town he grew up in and move to the big city. If you do not think that this has happened then you are a liar or a fool.

By the way, have you worked in the industry long enough to make that observation? Please answer the "question".

Yes I have. I might be new to the Airline side of it but there is a lot more to the industry than this.

Noticed you had no retort for fact that unions do not control what airlines charge for tickets, routes they fly or type aircraft they buy. Has a very large part on how well an airline does don't you think?

You are correct in that assessment but they do control labor. Which is equal to all of those listed. A company must be versatile in its labor management, when a company has to go and ask a union if it is OK for their employee to do some type of work then there are going to be serious issues with the companies overall performance.

 

[Bob Owens]

Answer the question.

Who gets hired?

Who gets hired? The one with experience.

Companies usually hire those who can produce right away. So recall rights or not there would be little opportunity for kids out of school.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

I have seen companies hire in green A&P's Some worked out some didn't. The ones that didn't were sent on their way, had a union been there the company would have been stuck with them. Just as your companies are stuck with a bunch of guys they don't want.

 

[TWU informer]

I have seen companies hire in green A&P's Some worked out some didn't. The ones that didn't were sent on their way, had a union been there the company would have been stuck with them. Just as your companies are stuck with a bunch of guys they don't want.

Why blame the union for that which you clearly states is a company decision?

There is no union labor agreement that states a company must keep worthless workers on the payroll. Most state that the union worker cannot be unjustly dealt with, but it is indeed a company decision to keep non-producers employed.

You like to blame unions for mis-managed companies. Are you that big of suckass or just ignorant?

 

[777 fixer]

"Advancement should be based on performance, qualifications, attendance, natural leadership and personality, not by what day you were hired on, who clocked in first or your birth date. Lets give natural selection a chance other than who can hang out the longest."


What do you mean "advancement"? Advancement to what? Advancement to a higher position? "Advancement" being keeping your job?

You throw out all these ideas yet I suspect if I press you for more details your not going to be able to give me much information. Lets look at attendance. In case you did'nt know attendance, or lack there of, will get you fired quicker than anything in the airline industry. So why you brought it up I have no idea. Personality, a completly subjective bench mark if I do say so myself. One that is open to abuse. Some would interpret "personality" as having the ability to kiss the largest amount of butt. I've known guys that can be difficult to get along with and can be a real pain. However these same guys are outstanding mechanics. On the flip side I've know guys who are "the life of the party" who are completly useless as mechancis. Please tell me what you mean buy "natural leadership".


"No, I cannot give you any written evidence. I'm just stating the obvious. Lets say I lived in Dallas, was fresh out of high school and was interested in the maintenance side of the aviation industry. After I did my research of the local industry and learned that it was going to be ten years at least, providing there were no more layoffs, before I would even be considered for the job, there is no way I would choose the field. That also goes for the guy that wants to get out of the one horse town he grew up in and move to the big city. If you do not think that this has happened then you are a liar or a fool."

Of course you can't because none exists. You say you're stating the "obvious" in regards to the recall system keeping people away from this profession yet offer nothing to back this up. Even in good times whan the airlines are hiring it's still going to take some kid out of A&P school a long time to get hired by an airline. It's an "obvious" fact that the airlines are going to want someone with some sort of heavy jet expereince.

Now lets say the recall system was done away with which means if you get laid off you have to start from scratch. Someone like me puts in an application to be rehired by the airline that laid me off. Then some kid with maybe two or three years working at an FBO puts in an application for the same postition. Who do you think they are going to hire? Someone with 10+ years experince or the kid from the FBO.

As I said before what's keeping people away from this profession is the fact that in the past five years four major airlines have files chapter 11. Then there's the fact that airlines are sending AMT jobs overseas. Then of course there's the very nature of the airline industry. Working weekends, holidays, nights and inclement weather. Don't forget the starting wages at places where a lot of AMT's get their start suck.

Oh by the way I got a chuckle when you said "a liar or a fool".



"Yes I have. I might be new to the Airline side of it but there is a lot more to the industry than this"


Working for an FBO, corporate flight department or a manufactuer is not the same as working for an airline. So you're experince with them is irrelevant.

 

[seed]

Why blame the union for that which you clearly states is a company decision?

There is no union labor agreement that states a company must keep worthless workers on the payroll. Most state that the union worker cannot be unjustly dealt with, but it is indeed a company decision to keep non-producers employed.

You like to blame unions for mis-managed companies. Are you that big of suckass or just ignorant?

Well put Informer...the union is present to assure the contract is upheld, not to assure a worthless mechanic keeps his job by simply paying union dues. If the mechanic retains employment while giving substandard performance then the Company is at fault, not the union....go figure.

Of course non union scabs see unions as an evil...makes them feel better when looking in a mirror. As much as Informer and I differ in opinion on many items, scabs have a way of solidifying what seems at times to be impossible.

Bottom line scab...you have no winnable battle here...you are short term employee willing to sell your soul for a chance to snuggle up to management and attempt to justify your actions to yourself and family...won't your kids be proud when they are schooled and realize what action their father took part in...

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Did I not read a thread where a guy was fired for leaving work after being there for only an hour or two and the TWU fought and got his job back?

 

[proAMFA]

Seed makes a good point PTO. Your actions will one day be judged by your kids. Are you really proud of your actions?

Your defending a company that wanted to cut heads 50% and drastically reduce wages. I can't think of any union that could have brought that back and expected it to pass.

People like you have ruined many lives during this holiday period. Perhaps they'll be a day when you explain to your kids that you headed down the wrong course at one time but then came to realize your mistake and made amends. Do you really want your kids to know how you really are? Your actions are recorded and unless you change the repercussions from your actions will follow you the rest of your life.

There will be a day when your kids are looking for jobs. A job that will provide enough pay and benefits to enable their families to live rather than survive. Tell your kids not to bother with the airline industry. Explain to them that there once was a time when it was a good field to consider but not anymore.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Did I not read a thread where a guy was fired for leaving work after being there for only an hour or two and the TWU fought and got his job back?

The reason why the person got his job back was because mgmt knew what was going on and condoned or ignored it.
So hoew can you fire someone that was doing something that mgmt knew about but took no action to prevent.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Time For Change, it is the guys that share your mentality that are going to bring about the downfall of unionism.

777 fixer I will address you tomorrow.

Seed, I am fully comfortable in my stance. There will be no resentment.

Very interesting Avatar proAMFA.

 

[777 fixer]

Time For Change, it is the guys that share your mentality that are going to bring about the downfall of unionism.

777 fixer I will address you tomorrow.

Seed, I am fully comfortable in my stance. There will be no resentment.

Very interesting Avatar proAMFA.

Guess you need time to come up with a coherent response, I understand.