JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[bob@las-AA]

I think my Alzheimer's is finally coming in? Thought you were in PHX.

And no Bob should never claim that any Station he doesn't work in is overstaffed. I never sent in Bobs resume to Centerport to become their new corporate bean counter so he's still out there like the rest of us slugging those bags to pay those bills.

And why NOT?! You are the very one that claims that this board is the arena for such debate

 

[Albert]

well, let's look at it this way..

fsc crandall was hired in 1985 as a fueler. twu job, paid dues. left fueling for title 3 fsc in 1989. been paying twu dues for 31 years. twu and javits say his seniority is 1989.

fsc parker was hired by piedmont in 1986, hired by us air in 1990. got to keep 1/2 seniority and was gifted 1988 seniority since 1990. iam and javits say his seniority is 1988. twu says, "ok, no problem, let's form an association".

fsc parker is now 400 spots ahead of fsc crandall system-wide and 75 spots ahead of him at the same station.

if this is true, i have a problem with this.

What? Assuming he is full time if he came from PI to US in the merger he got 86 seniority if he was hired By US off the street in 1990 He got 90 seniority. The only thing keeping that 85 fueler from full seniority is some TWU rules you had back then. Yes that would be opening up a can of worms that would take years to sort out. Stop believing all the B.S rumors you hear ,the merger is full of them

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

In 2014 LAS had 27 daily and 87 clerks and 8 Crew Chiefs, you have 13 daily and 87 clerks? How would you explain to the company that BWI needs more head count? Sorry, I think BWI might be a tad bit over staffed.

I think my Alzheimer's is finally coming in? Thought you were in PHX.

And no Bob should never claim that any Station he doesn't work in is overstaffed. I never sent in Bobs resume to Centerport to become their new corporate bean counter so he's still out there like the rest of us slugging those bags to pay those bills.

And why NOT?! You are the very one that claims that this board is the arena for such debate

WeAAsles is right.

He is attempting to be polite to your dumb-ass.

I on the other hand don't mind calling it like I see it dumb dumb.

 

[WeAAsles]

And why NOT?! You are the very one that claims that this board is the arena for such debate

Because you can't have a debate about what you believe something to be if you aren't actually in the thick of it to completely understand.

Without knowing all the details you're only being presumptuous.

 

[Albert]

md

again...i'm not in the union hierarchy nor a legacy us air employee to know us air's seniority policies inside-out. i can only go by what i've been told by legacy us air fscs and twu big-shooters.

i have paid union dues for years so some didn't have to wear a blue uniform every day and wore adidas track suits as a uniform to hang out at the union hall. they are supposed to know and they are supposed to look out after the best interests of the membership.

your argument is a bit selfish in the sense that you personally, feel safe in mia. that's fine, i'm also safe where i'm at. the bigger issue is fairness and who reaps what from this merger. going forward, this type of argument is absurd from a twu standpoint, arguing against your own membership..weakening membership's seniority positions and making yourself the weaker 'partner' of the 2 unions in this association.

i was for this merger because i felt that horton and co. would have been perfectly fine with american airlines as the 4th airline. keep aa in an incubator and grow eagle/envoy here and there. so far, good for parker, he wants to compete and that's good for all here.

up to this point, we have all benefited, but legacy us air, much more so.

Is AA still contributing millions to your frozen pension plan? The LUS side isn't getting a dime.To me more money is going to the AA side but what are you going to do

 

[Albert]

i agree that the association is working for all of us. my beef is with the twu, prior to the association forming. in fact, based on the twu's total body of work, i may feel a bit more confident with iam big-shooters negotiating for me.

no, it's too easy to say that i have an issue because i didn't move up in seniority. it's not about me. i just told you that you got passed in seniority by legacy us air fscs - some who may have acquired seniority in a manner that's ok with you, though, the same manner that me and others were denied....and you're telling me that those twu members negatively affected should let it go??

you argue the entire collective? prior to the association, the 'collective' was american airlines twu members. that's it. that is who i am arguing for. guys who worked at aa in 1980s-90s as aa made money and our competition america west filed bk in the 90s and us air twice in early 2000s? so, now these former competitors at struggling companies jump ahead of legacy aa fscs?

frankly, i don't understand your argument. i understand the gist of what you're telling me, but not the crux of supporting your argument.

You sound ridiculous,using your theory I can say AA was in bankruptcy they should all be on the bottom.

 

[Albert]

And why NOT?! You are the very one that claims that this board is the arena for such debate

Bob you are making me repeat myself, the girls don't like you using your phone while they are dancing. Put it down and enjoy the show

 

[CremaDiLimone]

What? Assuming he is full time if he came from PI to US in the merger he got 86 seniority if he was hired By US off the street in 1990 He got 90 seniority. The only thing keeping that 85 fueler from full seniority is some TWU rules you had back then. Yes that would be opening up a can of worms that would take years to sort out. Stop believing all the B.S rumors you hear ,the merger is full of them

exactly. 2 non-aa airlines merged and he kept his seniority. today, that legacy us air clerk's non-us air seniority is included amongst aa fsc's, some who worked for aa here or there or reno air, or a sky chef, etc..etc.

i don't think javits was hired to tell the us air PTers that he can't help them with their seniority. there's more pain on the aa side. i said i have a problem with this and i explained why, but i can lump it. as far as taking years to sort out, i don't believe that from the aa side- the company knows everyone's company seniority date.

md

Is AA still contributing millions to your frozen pension plan? The LUS side isn't getting a dime.To me more money is going to the AA side but what are you going to do

i hope so. aa's bk was so ridiculous the govt. actually pushed back. aa had nearly $4 billion in cash when they filed. it was a pension move, pure and simple. aa's pilots used to get $1 million lump sum pension payout. aa's mistake is that they should have filed in the early 2000's, ala you, 2xs and everyone else. they allowed everyone to accrue an additional 8 years on that frozen pension.

You sound ridiculous,using your theory I can say AA was in bankruptcy they should all be on the bottom.

that isn't any kind of theory. i'm talking about co-workers that helped push aa to the top of the chain - from mid 80's expansion til 9-11. guys getting paychecks (when they were paper), that had a huge AMR on it. unfortunately for them, maybe they should have pumped fuel into piedmont planes or catered allegheny airlines to get a rightful place in line. this is what i'm talking about, never saying that former legacy us air have no rights or nothing to carry over.

as far as the aa vs. us air, i'm not in that fight. we all got killed by 9-11, everything changed. prior to that, aa was the best and paid the best. maybe that's why aa had too much money not to file in 2002 and flopped on it's attempt to terminate our pensions in 2011. they should have filed under a republican administration.

 

[WeAAsles]

md

Is AA still contributing millions to your frozen pension plan? The LUS side isn't getting a dime.To me more money is going to the AA side but what are you going to do

They're actually making up for underfunding it. But I get your drift where I think the old US is not required to make up for the shortfall to the PBGC.

Actually it's your Pilots who got screwed the most on that deal because of PBGC maximums.

 

[WeAAsles]

You sound ridiculous,using your theory I can say AA was in bankruptcy they should all be on the bottom.

Exactly. Another good point Al. You've been hitting them out of the park a lot lately.

 

[WeAAsles]

exactly. 2 non-aa airlines merged and he kept his seniority. today, that legacy us air clerk's non-us air seniority is included amongst aa fsc's, some who worked for aa here or there or reno air, or a sky chef, etc..etc.

i don't think javits was hired to tell the us air PTers that he can't help them with their seniority. there's more pain on the aa side. i said i have a problem with this and i explained why, but i can lump it. as far as taking years to sort out, i don't believe that from the aa side- the company knows everyone's company seniority date.



i hope so. aa's bk was so ridiculous the govt. actually pushed back. aa had nearly $4 billion in cash when they filed. it was a pension move, pure and simple. aa's pilots used to get $1 million lump sum pension payout. aa's mistake is that they should have filed in the early 2000's, ala you, 2xs and everyone else. they allowed everyone to accrue an additional 8 years on that frozen pension.



that isn't any kind of theory. i'm talking about co-workers that helped push aa to the top of the chain - from mid 80's expansion til 9-11. guys getting paychecks (when they were paper), that had a huge AMR on it. unfortunately for them, maybe they should have pumped fuel into piedmont planes or catered allegheny airlines to get a rightful place in line. this is what i'm talking about, never saying that former legacy us air have no rights or nothing to carry over.

as far as the aa vs. us air, i'm not in that fight. we all got killed by 9-11, everything changed. prior to that, aa was the best and paid the best. maybe that's why aa had too much money not to file in 2002 and flopped on it's attempt to terminate our pensions in 2011. they should have filed under a republican administration.

Al you're not going to win with this guy. His mind is made up and closed for business.

 

[WeAAsles]

65 pages of explanation and it doesn't matter at all who likes it or not because any argument is completely moot.


http://www.usaamerger.com/wp-conten...20Report20and20Recommendation2012-27-16-1.pdf

 

[Albert]

exactly. 2 non-aa airlines merged and he kept his seniority. today, that legacy us air clerk's non-us air seniority is included amongst aa fsc's, some who worked for aa here or there or reno air, or a sky chef, etc..etc.

i don't think javits was hired to tell the us air PTers that he can't help them with their seniority. there's more pain on the aa side. i said i have a problem with this and i explained why, but i can lump it. as far as taking years to sort out, i don't believe that from the aa side- the company knows everyone's company seniority date.



i hope so. aa's bk was so ridiculous the govt. actually pushed back. aa had nearly $4 billion in cash when they filed. it was a pension move, pure and simple. aa's pilots used to get $1 million lump sum pension payout. aa's mistake is that they should have filed in the early 2000's, ala you, 2xs and everyone else. they allowed everyone to accrue an additional 8 years on that frozen pension.



that isn't any kind of theory. i'm talking about co-workers that helped push aa to the top of the chain - from mid 80's expansion til 9-11. guys getting paychecks (when they were paper), that had a huge AMR on it. unfortunately for them, maybe they should have pumped fuel into piedmont planes or catered allegheny airlines to get a rightful place in line. this is what i'm talking about, never saying that former legacy us air have no rights or nothing to carry over.

as far as the aa vs. us air, i'm not in that fight. we all got killed by 9-11, everything changed. prior to that, aa was the best and paid the best. maybe that's why aa had too much money not to file in 2002 and flopped on it's attempt to terminate our pensions in 2011. they should have filed under a republican administration.

I was hired in 1978 LUS made money almost every year until the merger with PI around 89 or 90.What year was it AA started and TWU agree to a "B" scale

 

[Albert]

They're actually making up for underfunding it. But I get your drift where I think the old US is not required to make up for the shortfall to the PBGC.

Actually it's your Pilots who got screwed the most on that deal because of PBGC maximums.

True AA will be using millions to fund a pension that will be only going to some of their employees.

 

[Albert]

Al you're not going to win with this guy. His mind is made up and closed for business.

Yeah he sounds like he could be one of those "restore and more" dudes. Thickheaded people abound in these ranks don't they