2015 Fleet Service Discussion

[737823]

Those guys are f**ked
It's hard to watch this all unfold...

Thanks to Ira and Sito for pushing this agreement.

Josh

 

[AANOTOK]

Thanks to Ira and Sito for pushing this agreement.

Josh

And how much does all this carnage cost you Josh? I'm willing to bet not one iota. I'm also willing to bet you couldn't give a rats ass about what it does to the lives of those it does affect. All you do is use these kinds of announcements as ammo in your daily stalking of 700!

 

[robbedagain]

Hopefully the next time those same folks at UA will remember that it is not about the money but rather everything including  and esp Scope    I feel bad whats happening but in the end  they voted for it       Josh just for the record I do believe the negogatiors should have never agreed to the deal in the first place let alone put it out for vote       Good luck to all those affected.   700 I fully agree with you regarding US having the best scope in the airline industry   our contract is one of the best ones we have in the airline industry 

 

[MetalMover]

Hopefully the next time those same folks at UA will remember that it is not about the money but rather everything including  and esp Scope    I feel bad whats happening but in the end  they voted for it       Josh just for the record I do believe the negogatiors should have never agreed to the deal in the first place let alone put it out for vote       Good luck to all those affected.   700 I fully agree with you regarding US having the best scope in the airline industry   our contract is one of the best ones we have in the airline industry 

Question....What was the total IAM headcount at its peak at US? ALL IAM groups?

 

[Kev3188]

And how much does all this carnage cost you Josh? I'm willing to bet not one iota. I'm also willing to bet you couldn't give a rats ass about what it does to the lives of those it does affect. All you do is use these kinds of announcements as ammo in your daily stalking of 700!

His contempt for those that actually do the work is no surprise.

 

[T5towbar]

I believe they negotiate BEFORE the station is outsourced officially, that has been the process.

Yes. The district gets to see what the vendors are proposing and will try to work around it - ie: alternatives. But with the vendors low ball proposals (UA usually picks the worst of the lot - ie: Simplicity), how can you even match it. So that doesn't fly.  It wont work!! The Hawaiian islands case was very different in the cost of doing business in that state is very high in the first place, so the choice was either to move to HNL (where it is under scope with no cuts) transfer to the mainland; or take cuts. They voted on taking cuts: IIRC, they lost their top from 24.00 and change, to about 20.00. And they lost their 401K match and a week of vacation. I don't know what else, but that's the worst of it. That was an exception. This will not happen any place in the country. Its done.
 

it is Kev and to think Bartz and Klemm were all over social media calling members stupid to dared to disagree with their lies.
How anyone could vote for those two is just beyond me, they give unionism a bad name

I fail to understand too, but people took the money, and that's what we get.  That's all I will say.............
 

Can UA management implementation the changes and then enter into negotiations

They must confer with the District before any changes are to be implemented. But no one knows how many or which ones out of the 27 or 28 they will cut. They usually make these announcements in Jan. - Feb. but since DEN is burning down (no mention of this in their newsletter), I guess after DEN is stabilized and the heat is off, announcements will be made. It's just puts people on pins and needles. And no mention of the insourcing either. Or a substantial out package either. It seems like the District is satisfied with the constant downgrading and furloughing of members because no dues are lost. It's sick. This whats bothering me about this District. And a lot of members don't read the contract and don't understand the ramifications about the LOA's. Tim and others tried to explained about LOA #5; but people poo-pooed it. Why weren't their timetables in LOA #6? And why people don't understand that LOA #4 is a major conflict of interest?
 
God help us all...........

 

[AANOTOK]

So, AA is saying a Pilot ratification will add $650 million to labor costs in 2015 and another $200 million has been added from the FA passage (better known as a gift from Doug). Well, I guess if Barney Fife, Otis, Gomer etc...would not have given the key to the criminal, we possibly could be talking about how much we added to labor costs. But now, until the Mayberry (NMB) city council decides what to do, we sit and wait...Shazam!

 

[NYer]

Yes. The district gets to see what the vendors are proposing and will try to work around it - ie: alternatives. But with the vendors low ball proposals (UA usually picks the worst of the lot - ie: Simplicity), how can you even match it. So that doesn't fly.  It wont work!! The Hawaiian islands case was very different in the cost of doing business in that state is very high in the first place, so the choice was either to move to HNL (where it is under scope with no cuts) transfer to the mainland; or take cuts. They voted on taking cuts: IIRC, they lost their top from 24.00 and change, to about 20.00. And they lost their 401K match and a week of vacation. I don't know what else, but that's the worst of it. That was an exception. This will not happen any place in the country. Its done.
 

 
That's the danger of opening pay rates for certain high cost cities. If you open that door, the it becomes much more difficult to keep the pay rates at other stations to where they are now. Most only see the positive on certain arguments, but they don't look down the road and consider the consequences.

 

[NYer]

So, AA is saying a Pilot ratification will add $650 million to labor costs in 2015 and another $200 million has been added from the FA passage (better known as a gift from Doug). Well, I guess if Barney Fife, Otis, Gomer etc...would not have given the key to the criminal, we possibly could be talking about how much we added to labor costs. But now, until the Mayberry (NMB) city council decides what to do, we sit and wait...Shazam!

 
This is why we needed to be getting ready for negotiations, jointly, as we wait for the NMB decision. It is clear there is a premium being earned by the unions that can get JCBA's within the time it takes to get a Single Operators' Certificate. The F/A's received the extra $80M and the pilots were granted the retro pay even if their ratification goes past the January 19th deadline set by the airline.

 

[AANOTOK]

 
" the pilots were granted the retro pay even if their ratification goes past the January 19th deadline set by the airline."

I have not seen that agreement. If so, Doug sure is bending alot. My fear is if and when our folks get their sh** together, the pie is considerably smaller AND Doug is no longer in the bending mood.

 

[700UW]

Go to the pilots' thread or APA website.
 
Its called the Kirby Letter.

 

[NYer]

I have not seen that agreement. If so, Doug sure is bending alot. My fear is if and when our folks get their sh** together, the pie is considerably smaller AND Doug is no longer in the bending mood.

 
Sent to pilots, January 11.
 
Dear Pilots:
 
We have heard from many of you since our letter on Friday. Thank you for reaching out. Most all of those we have heard from have asked about the January 19 deadline for ratification for the new pay rates to be retroactive to December 2. And many of you have suggested that the January 19 deadline is unreasonable, based on the representation by the APA Board that it did not receive the final Domestic-International language until January 9.
 
If that representation were an accurate statement of the facts, of course, it would be unreasonable to ask for a January 19 ratification. But that representation is neither accurate nor fair to our pilots. We have worked veryhard to not get into the blow-by-blow account of the APA Board’s inaccuracies, but with the ratification date ahead, it now seems important that we do so. The fact is that the APA Board has known about the January 19 deadline since December 23 when the Company agreed to extend the retro pay deadline for the third time. Moreover, until December 29, the APA negotiating committee and the Company had an agreed approach to the D-I issue and agreed upon language that would support that approach. Finally, after the APA Board asked for more detailed language on Domestic-International, we agreed to try, and we delivered the D-I language to the APA Board on January 3. Unfortunately, the APA Board then spent the next six days attempting to renegotiate concepts that had long been agreed to at the table, knowing full well that they had also agreed to a January 19 deadline for retroactivity, and that that date was fast approaching.
 
There are numerous other examples of this kind of non-helpful back and forth that have occurred over the past several months, but that isn't really important at this point. Bottom line, know that the January 19 deadline was set on December 23, agreed to by the APA Board, and that management ensured the APA Board had everything it would need to meet that deadline. One of the more distressing mischaracterizations has been the APA Board's disparagement of the Company's negotiators. Most of those are fellow employees who work in finance, labor and flight operations, and who support all of us. That team worked tirelessly and extensively over the Holidays, and we should all be proud to work with such committed individuals who, like you, simply want to move forward as one team.
 
So here we are, management and union debating in public – but the ones getting hurt are our line pilots. You are the ones who lose two months of retroactive pay increases if the ratification date does not move. Irrespective of how we got here, the fact is that our pilots did not get the Company's proposal from the APA Board until January 9, and our line pilots deserve some time to consider the proposal. The objective of the January 19 deadline was not to rush you. The objective was to force the APA Board to act and provide our pilots the opportunity to vote on a proposal that would improve their compensation and benefits by $2 billion over the JCBA implemented by arbitration. And fortunately, that objective has been achieved. Accordingly, today we are reaching out to the APA Board to extend the date for pay retroactivity to January 30.
 
Thank you for bearing with us through this process. There is certainly a lot of lingering mistrust to overcome and we are committed to doing just that over time. Please take the time you need to understand our proposal and vote how you see fit. So long as the offer is ratified by January 30, the new pay rates will be effective retroactive to December 2. Thanks for taking the time to read yet another letter on this topic, and thank you for your commitment to American.
 
Scott

 

[AANOTOK]

Good deal...Thanks

 

[T5towbar]

 
That's the danger of opening pay rates for certain high cost cities. If you open that door, the it becomes much more difficult to keep the pay rates at other stations to where they are now. Most only see the positive on certain arguments, but they don't look down the road and consider the consequences.

Yup.
That's the problem with something like that. The Hawaii islands was sort of a "test case" so to speak. And trying to match a vendors rates is folly. 
Personally, I know a gun was held to the heads of those Islanders (for whatever reasons) who could not go to HNL or the mainland. I guess they saw their options, and took what was best for them. Now this company will try to take advantage of the situation, I feel. There has been no positive news since this this contract happened.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Unfortunately, United management wants to outsource the IAM members who sacrificed and helped the airline out of bankruptcy. Unfortunately, our union leaders wouldn't say anything negative about the outsourcing but the reporter allowed me to bring out the issues of justice. 
 
http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_27305607/united-airlines-moves-outsource-labor-at-28-airports