AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[VAflyGal]

What happen to some of the Binding Arbitration awards in the union’s contacts of the past at US that don’t exist now?

This is the AFA thread. There are about 367 threads for the pilots. Can we try to keep this one for flight attendants please?

 

[Onestep2flt]

Being on USAPA's side is a pretty stupid place to be lately.....

What part of "Binding" don't you all get?

What is pretty stupid is the thread creep. Does every thread have to be taken over by the pilot argument that will only be decided by the courts? It ain't over till it's over!

That is coming from someone that saw merit from both sides of the argument. In the end you can give any meaning to the word binding you like but the courts will define it in the end no matter which side your on. It is just that simple! It may not be fair as you perceive it but as a matter contract law that is the way it is.

So, what is going on with the flight attendants? Thought I would ask since I thought this was an AFA thread.

 

[missthe727]

This is the AFA thread. There are about 367 threads for the pilots. Can we try to keep this one for flight attendants please?

I PMd Edward the moderator and asked him to open a new AFA thread. This one has been open for almost a YEAR since 25 September, 2010. I'm sick of pilot stuff on here too.

What IS going on with AFA ? I heard commuters will be losing parking in BOS and was it MCO ? PIT seems okay right now but they are moving their employee parking to where the commuters used to be on the E gates so the airport no longer has to pay for bus transportation. Pretty soon it's going to be something like move to a base or quit.....then when you move, they'll close the base.

 

[galley princess]

What is pretty stupid is the thread creep. Does every thread have to be taken over by the pilot argument that will only be decided by the courts? It ain't over till it's over!

That is coming from someone that saw merit from both sides of the argument. In the end you can give any meaning to the word binding you like but the courts will define it in the end no matter which side your on. It is just that simple! It may not be fair as you perceive it but as a matter contract law that is the way it is.

So, what is going on with the flight attendants? Thought I would ask since I thought this was an AFA thread.

We-ell, there was an eline pertaining to some snapbacks that will apply in Jan 2012 for East f/as. Speaking for myself they will be very welcome.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Well, since this thread has become a little dull I'll try to liven it up a bit.

SK was on our flight the other day. F/A asked when will we have a contract - 2,3 years?

His reply was surprising (with a couple caveats). He seemed to think that MAYBE by the first half of next year.

He also cautioned that we ( the F/As ) can't ask for "outrageous" (according to him) money.

He also seemed to think that there was some F/A leverage ( on the East side ) that needed to be played out.
(I don't know what he was referring to.)

Hope I have been of service in livening things up around here.

Have at it.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Why do you think we have s court system.

I can see that reading skills and comprehension do not go hand in hand with you.

That is exactly what he said.

Besides, you are on the wrong thread.

 

[Barrister]

USUS

The various laws beg to differ with you. I don't and you can't live on Fantasy Island with this stuff. The harsh, stark reality is that if you don't like a decision you hire a lawyer. That's the way this country works.. I was raised that if you made a deal you lived with it and apparently you were as well. Clearly Cleary and others were not thus this seemingly endless barrage of venom, vitriol & legal fees.

Supposedly a Marriage contract is also a legal binding contract between two parties of sound mind. Over 50% of these binding contracts are broken. It's basic contract law. Plus our culture is one of me me me first, last and always.

With one side feeling it wasn't treated fairly did you really expect them to go to their membership and say "A deal is a deal"? They'd be swimming with the fishes. Look at the history. The so called leaders had an axe to grind with ALPA so they laid the groundwork for a new independent union (USAPA). They know they possess a majority ad can ram through a lot of what they want. Typical bullies. Trouble is they're bound to binding arbitration with an arbitrator they approved. One with a pretty good track record I might add. So USAPA comes to fruition and the Nic award goes horribly wrong (Might have the chronology wrong) in their eyes now what are they supposed to do? They promised the world on a Silver platter and delivered a bucket of manure with a blue ribbon tied around it.

Do you really think that those at the top give a hoot in Hades about pilot #4879 on the seniority list and his/her well being? They don't! never did. This is and was IMO about gaining a sweetheart deal for themselves at the expense of the members from the East & West. Nice office, full pay, prestige amongst peers. No way their egos allow them to piss that away so they sued using members money to fund their actions. Think about it! Really what else could they do? It's naive to think they would just accept the award when doing so would have cost them their cushy jobs and FPL, not to mention the other trappings of power.

Now here we are with umpteen court cases, acrimony out the ying yang and not one pilot has seen a dime more in income and is now potentially exposed to a potential damage award and subsequent assessment.

I grew up in a world where a deal was a deal and sadly it's not that way now. You're dead bang right, however that and $5.00 will get you a Latte at Starbucks.

You get it right sometimes and then......boy you go off course like a ballistic missle with no guidance sys. You really think this is about a power trip on Cleary's part.
It's about a union ALPA who threw us under the bus many times......US/PI date of hire..fine worked out OK ......then the biggest union UAL gets DOH taken out of the merger policy
....guys like me and thousands more not paying attention....next thing you know....Pension......GONE........secretaries at ALPA making more than a 10 year
US F/O...event planners making 250K with full benefits........20-30 people making over 200K per at ALPA....then we arb.....he puts a 17 year never furloughed
pilot junior to a new hire WHO HAD NEVER FLOWN A REVENUE TRIP. Question.......had he gone straight DOH and the West in fact had veto power over any joint contract do you think the West would have EVER signed a joint contract with the vast majority of the benefits going to the East plus DOH or would they be sitting back going
burn in hell and enjoy LOA 93.......oh wait ......they are now!!!!! FUBAR.....but Cleary is doing EXACTLY what he needs to do....we can wait.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[SparrowHawk]

USUS

You get it right sometimes and then......boy you go off course like a ballistic missle with no guidance sys. You really think this is about a power trip on Cleary's part.
It's about a union ALPA who threw us under the bus many times......US/PI date of hire..fine worked out OK ......then the biggest union UAL gets DOH taken out of the merger policy
....guys like me and thousands more not paying attention....next thing you know....Pension......GONE........secretaries at ALPA making more than a 10 year
US F/O...event planners making 250K with full benefits........20-30 people making over 200K per at ALPA....then we arb.....he puts a 17 year never furloughed
pilot junior to a new hire WHO HAD NEVER FLOWN A REVENUE TRIP. Question.......had he gone straight DOH and the West in fact had veto power over any joint contract do you think the West would have EVER signed a joint contract with the vast majority of the benefits going to the East plus DOH or would they be sitting back going
burn in hell and enjoy LOA 93.......oh wait ......they are now!!!!! FUBAR.....but Cleary is doing EXACTLY what he needs to do....we can wait.

NICDOA
NPJB

I;ve fought the corporate wars and it's ALWAYS about power and prestige. I doubt if it's different on the USAPA side. You want to discuss this in detail? We really should respect the AFA and take it elsewhere.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Its binding, throw out all the other hyperbolic crap about evil corporations, and all the bias you have against Doug.

You have no idea what "binding" means.

Go to law school if you are really interested.

 

[700UW]

Show us one case of binding arbitration that was overturned when nothing illegal occurred during the arbitration.

As a former IAM rep, I can tell you that you cant pick and choose what award to abide by and what to ignore.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Show us one case of binding arbitration that was overturned when nothing illegal occurred during the arbitration.

We are saying, among other issues, that the "list" presented to the arbitrator, was incomplete. It ignored some 600 pilots at MDA, a group cited by the FAA as on the mainline list time and again.

That will be won, ALPA has already agreed they effed up. So, the entire arbitration was based on fallacious data, not that it will make any difference.

I will never fly with a "west" crew. Thanks to Mr. Parker. For the same reasons "they" will never allow me on their jump-seat. It is bad enough they want my position, as well as having me "pay for it", their words.

I, as a pilot, got a lot of poop tossed my way for supporting your strike in the early 90s and really resent your implications of "non support". Bastard. I was actually tossed off the property over this issue and I am really pissed about your comments.

Frankly, I feel Mr. Parker, as well as his cohorts, deserves a "high five" and not in the way one might think.

 

[whizbang]

[/quote]
Dont you boys think you have enough forums? Why do you have to encroach on the AFA site? It is sad that there is so much crying going on. The sad part is that ALPA screwed this joint big time. They gave the guys on the west the winning lottery ticket and they dont want to give it up. As someone with no horse in the race, I cant understand why anyone wouldnt see this as a windfall. ALPA should have never presented NIC to the company. We might have been able to overcome our differences if The award would have been done in a fair and equitable manner. Now everybody here has to suffer for their mistake. A large amout of guys on the East will be retiring and the junior guys would have all moved up. You guys might have had a joint contract (yea right , just like us at afa who dont have the big issues 6 years later.) with better wages for all. All this has done si screw both sides. I sometimes wish we would just split up again. The sad thing is that parker would probably stay with the east because we have more value than the low yield phx and he stands to make more selling us. Why are the guys on the west so upset about LOA 93. The East side of this operation made big sacrifices to keep this place goiing. Shouldnt the company have to abide by the contracts that were signed? Stop drinking the Koolaide yyou can accomplish more together than apart. A little short term pain will bring long term gain. Stop whining like a bunch of bitches and look at the whole thing from both sides. Im sure if the guys on the west put themselves in the easts shoes and vice versa, maybe you guy could work this out. I wouldnt want to give up my winning lottery ticket either, but I would want to do the right thing.

 

[700UW]

We are saying, among other issues, that the "list" presented to the arbitrator, was incomplete. It ignored some 600 pilots at MDA, a group cited by the FAA as on the mainline list time and again.

That will be won, ALPA has already agreed they effed up. So, the entire arbitration was based on fallacious data, not that it will make any difference.

I will never fly with a "west" crew. Thanks to Mr. Parker. For the same reasons "they" will never allow me on their jump-seat. It is bad enough they want my position, as well as having me "pay for it", their words.

I, as a pilot, got a lot of poop tossed my way for supporting your strike in the early 90s and really resent your implications of "non support". Bastard. I was actually tossed off the property over this issue and I am really pissed about your comments.

Frankly, I feel Mr. Parker, as well as his cohorts, deserves a "high five" and not in the way one might think.

So if they were ignored, which isnt illegal, why hasnt USAPA sued to get it overturned? They seem to sue for everything else! The FAA has NOTHING to do with the CBA, the NMB nor seniority integration.

Please show me anywhere in the FAA's regulations, federal law or their mission statement that they have anything to do with Seniority.

Better go educate yourself. Your grasping at straws.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

So if they were ignored, which isnt illegal, why hasnt USAPA sued to get it overturned? They seem to sue for everything else! The FAA has NOTHING to do with the CBA, the NMB nor seniority integration.

Please show me anywhere in the FAA's regulations, federal law or their mission statement that they have anything to do with Seniority.

Better go educate yourself. Your grasping at straws.

There is a giant lawsuit in progress, at this time. Brought by MDA against ALPA. They will win. Please, pay attention.

 

[700UW]

And that has nothing to do with the Nic Award, USAPA would have to sue to stop it and US Airways has all ready accepted it.

Did you miss that occurrence?