AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[luvthe9]

And that has nothing to do with the Nic Award, USAPA would have to sue to stop it and US Airways has all ready accepted it.

Did you miss that occurrence?

Then why is it not in place? After all, what is four years plus?

 

[700UW]

Have you not read the Transition Agreement, you know the LOA in your CBA?

You have to have a single CBA ratified for it to go into effect.

And what are you gonna do when you finally get into a 30 day cooling off period and it ends and the company imposes a CBA?

Because that is where this is all headed, mark my words.

Not many six figure jobs out there now, is there?

 

[whizbang]

Have you not read the Transition Agreement, you know the LOA in your CBA?

You have to have a single CBA ratified for it to go into effect.

And what are you gonna do when you finally get into a 30 day cooling off period and it ends and the company imposes a CBA?

Because that is where this is all headed, mark my words.

seriously boys, do you belive this belongs on the afa discussion . shouldnt you take your pissing contest elsewhere?

 

[ggiby]

Have you not read the Transition Agreement, you know the LOA in your CBA?

You have to have a single CBA ratified for it to go into effect.

And what are you gonna do when you finally get into a 30 day cooling off period and it ends and the company imposes a CBA?

Because that is where this is all headed, mark my words.

Not many six figure jobs out there now, is there?

This is the afa labor discussion board... take this discussion over to your pilot board... Unless you pay some dues to afa?

 

[700UW]

Since when did that become a board requirement?

Read the TOS please.

 

[Travelpro72]

Valid discussions and quite the ordeal but can we keep this threat about AFA and flight attendants? Not to be rude but if anyone wants to follow the tennis match between east and west in the pilot thread they can go there and read the 2000 pages. We's got our own issues here see and ain't got no time for this bizniss here. 😉

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Since when did that become a board requirement?

Read the TOS please.

You seem to be a conscientious person when it comes to knowing whats right and wrong
and what is common sense or not - you should know better.

 

[Harry Callahan]

You seem to be a conscientious person when it comes to knowing whats right and wrong
and what is common sense or not - you should know better.

Put him on ignore like I did makes life easier. Only time I see his posts now are in a quote.

 

[N965VJ]

This thread was started my a mod at a time when only mods could start labor related threads. That is no longer the case; now anyone can start a thread here about anything relating to US.

It's probably time to shut this thread down and let discussions flow naturally like they did a few years ago. 😉

 

[Travelpro72]

Well you notice a HUGE amount of people that posted here are no longer around due to how the board was run before. You had a hard time saying ANYTHING without being sent to corn fields, couldn't start posts and everything AFA was lumped into one thread where you had to read through pages and pages. Facebook and the private groups there is where everyone is at. I believe most here are management, customers and a few employees. I loved aviation at one time but it's sort of dead here anymore. Just a few die hards that are either anti-facebook or don't know about the group. AFA here is crickets.

 

[whizbang]

Well you notice a HUGE amount of people that posted here are no longer around due to how the board was run before. You had a hard time saying ANYTHING without being sent to corn fields, couldn't start posts and everything AFA was lumped into one thread where you had to read through pages and pages. Facebook and the private groups there is where everyone is at. I believe most here are management, customers and a few employees. I loved aviation at one time but it's sort of dead here anymore. Just a few die hards that are either anti-facebook or don't know about the group. AFA here is crickets.

It seems like they may have taken the hint. How long do you think it will last?

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

I believe most here are management, customers and a few employees. I loved aviation at one time but it's sort of dead here anymore. Just a few die hards that are either anti-facebook or don't know about the group. AFA here is crickets.

Time to wake this thread up......It's probably because every thread on this forum has been hijacked to the ongoing seniority drama between the pilots.
Facebook <<<I don't care where you are or what just ate>>> is like watching the crew news session, internet trash talk, and FOX news all at the same time -and is still a GREATER waste of time than lurking on US Aviation.
The post have been getting pretty boring - and petty. No more conversation - just who bought who or who sucks more. Also the ability to use the words "Douche bag" in a sentence is finite if anyone was wondering.

I keep hoping someone in a position to do something positive will finally wake up and realize that not only have they wasted six years of their life (during this failed merger), but ALL (East and West) of the employees involved have as well.

It's time for Doug and company (including certain labor leaders) to step up and get serious. Time to quit playing the games and finish the merger. Lord knows you have had SIX YEARS - how much time do you need? How many mergers that were announced after the US-AWA have been consummated and we are still playing ""let's shoot each other in the foot".

If Parker and Company can't accomplish this task - maybe it's time for him to return to a job more suited for his talents (perhaps managing Circle K store in the valley) and leave running the airline to a big boy. It would probably the first Circle K in history to held up at gunpoint ........by it's own management team instead of an armed robber.

Doug say he wants to merge the airline? Then merge the damn airline already, you don't need to wait for the courts to make a decision regarding seniority. Work it out with the parties involved and quit talking out of both sides of your mouth perpetuating "EAST vs. WEST".

The labor dispute between the pilots and your inability to negotiate any thing other than concessionary contract makes LCC the laughing stock of the industry - to everyone that DOESN'T work here.
I can only assume that's how management must have run things at AWA.

Your no longer managing a regional airline......well at least not at the present moment .....it's about time to start acting like it or you will be again.

Besides the pilots don't need to flight attendants to reach a contract and the flight attendants don't need the pilots to reach a contract.
Time to end the rhetoric and get it done....or move on.

If the company plans on waiting out the F/As until FEB 2012......irregardless of what the economy is doing......that's going to be a bad move. Maybe LCC can be the first airline history to sue both their pilots and flight attendants simultaneously.
Frank Lorenzo and Bill Franke would be proud.

Ever notice the company always seems to report to the media, the investment banks, or even at the recent Hudson Securities conference:
"profits are up....costs are down"....."the merger is going great"....."we're running a great airline - everything is wonderful"...."we support industry consolidation"....... (the industry does not want to consolidate with US).....blah...blah....blah".....just more management speak.

Yet without exception "poor mouths" the state of the airline when the union and employees are looking the return on "THEIR" investment during contract talks.
About the same time reverting back into the mono-toned "cost neutral" clone of Bill Franke.

Translated for those that do not have a business degree or MBA:

"LCC enjoys the lowest labor costs in the industry and will continue to exploit the concessions of our valued employees." "Doug has been able to keep labor costs artificially low by refusing to negotiate in good faith on labor contracts." "He will continue to use fear, intimidation,and company imposed legal delays, while outsourcing maintenance to third word countries to ensure the lowest labor costs in the industry at ANY cost".

"In the attempt of giving the appearance of profitability and my excellent management prowess." "Profitability with the current LCC business model is clearly unsustainable due to reducing capacity and my continued dependence of out sourcing mainline to express."

"LCC loads are at industry records, yet our yields are at historic lows and are forecast to continue to diminish as we contract. The company will continue press for the elimination of scope clauses in all labor contract and hinder the negotiating process, until such time LCC is able to hopefully locate a merger partner that I will be able to pass on the true cost of actually operating the airline - while still affording myself and management team an early retirement, golden parachutes knowing that I was able to screw over the employees one last time before my departure."

"Don't think of me as your CEO, Think of me as the herpes of airline management - with a gift that keeps on giving"

Ironic isn't it? No wonder the employees and labor unions don't believe a word that is muttered by the cactus dream team.
Maybe going forward - if we are ever able - logic and cooler heads will prevail and we can leave all the rhetoric and vitriol back in the cave - for all concerned.......going forward-if we are ever able.
We can always hope right?

We now return you to "the pilot pissing contest and anti-union show" which is already in progress.....

 

[flygirl74]

Well you notice a HUGE amount of people that posted here are no longer around due to how the board was run before. You had a hard time saying ANYTHING without being sent to corn fields, couldn't start posts and everything AFA was lumped into one thread where you had to read through pages and pages. Facebook and the private groups there is where everyone is at. I believe most here are management, customers and a few employees. I loved aviation at one time but it's sort of dead here anymore. Just a few die hards that are either anti-facebook or don't know about the group. AFA here is crickets.

True. I rarely even visit this site anymore. It's the same 12 people throwing sand at each other in the sandbox. Boring!!!!!!!! I'll check back in a month or so.

 

[galley princess]

True. I rarely even visit this site anymore. It's the same 12 people throwing sand at each other in the sandbox. Boring!!!!!!!! I'll check back in a month or so.

Well, there are a few things that we could talk about.

Anyone know the outcome of the company's violation of the last trip of the month/ hurricane issue at the end of August? I love how AWA feels like it can make its own rules regarding a longstanding East contract rule.

Then there's the recent directive to reserves that suddenly relegates them to the crewroom playpen, none of which is valid under the contract.

Finally, does anyone have a sense of how to prepare for the coming end of the f/a agreement? There's rumors that we will see something in January, but of course AFA is so communicative.

The lodos got smacked in a meeting with Hector. Why anyone thought it would go another way, I don't know. . .

A thought regarding any tentative. Given the economy and how dirty AWA plays with contracts, it is my humble opinion that f/as who consent to give up the bidsheet are short sighted. Of all of the tools that can be drug out when self help is allowed, with minimal negative consequences for f/as and maximum pain infliction on the company, this is a no brainer. There is never a good time to strike. That said, there is a necessity to stand up and fight for what you deserve. Giving up a tool that makes it easier on US f/as than any other group in the industry would be a concession of inestimable value. The senior flight attendants knew it and fought to keep it. Junior f/as ironically, can't really use the bidsheet to their advantage in practical day to day application, but will need it more than ever in the future if only for its negotiating advantage. God willing, the senior mamas will be retiring in the next ten years, and the present junior twenty-something year f/as will be faced with an increasingly hostile business climate. It is very possible that 8-9% unemployment could be the new normal, and trotted out as a threat every time you turn around. I hate to say it, but AWA style management is most likely the future. Retaining hard won tools should be a priority. To reiterate, just because you don't use it, doesn't mean it isn't valuable.

I hope that f/as insist on a minimal length contract this time. With all of the machinations that the company comes up with a seven year contract is inevitably nine years. There should always be a plan for the next one. The British airways f/as that participated in their strikes suffered retaliation by management in the form of denial of their flight benefits. I have no doubt that there were superior offers on the table than what they ended up with, but their union declined them due to one thing, those offers threw those strikers under the bus. What a win that would have been for BA management. What would happen next time the f/as needed a strike? BA f/as did eventually have to yield to decreased staffing, but they saved their legitimacy for the future.

If you're planning on flying in the future, read any tentative for what it is, a temporary plan. Heaven knows, we all know that they'll come back and take it away if they think they need to.

 

[Onestep2flt]

Well, there are a few things that we could talk about.

Anyone know the outcome of the company's violation of the last trip of the month/ hurricane issue at the end of August? I love how AWA feels like it can make its own rules regarding a longstanding East contract rule.

Then there's the recent directive to reserves that suddenly relegates them to the crewroom playpen, none of which is valid under the contract.

Finally, does anyone have a sense of how to prepare for the coming end of the f/a agreement? There's rumors that we will see something in January, but of course AFA is so communicative.

The lodos got smacked in a meeting with Hector. Why anyone thought it would go another way, I don't know. . .

A thought regarding any tentative. Given the economy and how dirty AWA plays with contracts, it is my humble opinion that f/as who consent to give up the bidsheet are short sighted. Of all of the tools that can be drug out when self help is allowed, with minimal negative consequences for f/as and maximum pain infliction on the company, this is a no brainer. There is never a good time to strike. That said, there is a necessity to stand up and fight for what you deserve. Giving up a tool that makes it easier on US f/as than any other group in the industry would be a concession of inestimable value. The senior flight attendants knew it and fought to keep it. Junior f/as ironically, can't really use the bidsheet to their advantage in practical day to day application, but will need it more than ever in the future if only for its negotiating advantage. God willing, the senior mamas will be retiring in the next ten years, and the present junior twenty-something year f/as will be faced with an increasingly hostile business climate. It is very possible that 8-9% unemployment could be the new normal, and trotted out as a threat every time you turn around. I hate to say it, but AWA style management is most likely the future. Retaining hard won tools should be a priority. To reiterate, just because you don't use it, doesn't mean it isn't valuable.

I hope that f/as insist on a minimal length contract this time. With all of the machinations that the company comes up with a seven year contract is inevitably nine years. There should always be a plan for the next one. The British airways f/as that participated in their strikes suffered retaliation by management in the form of denial of their flight benefits. I have no doubt that there were superior offers on the table than what they ended up with, but their union declined them due to one thing, those offers threw those strikers under the bus. What a win that would have been for BA management. What would happen next time the f/as needed a strike? BA f/as did eventually have to yield to decreased staffing, but they saved their legitimacy for the future.

If you're planning on flying in the future, read any tentative for what it is, a temporary plan. Heaven knows, we all know that they'll come back and take it away if they think they need to.

These, and what others said above are all interesting questions. It is a breath of fresh air for someone to say anything other than folks throwing grade school playground insults at one another. I try not to comment too much on those threads because no matter what is said the final outcome is outside of any of the name calling.

One thing strikes me as funny in the flight attendant relm. It is my understanding that with little fanfare that the west has made changes to their negotiators. Is that not interesting that the east can recall their leaders and you union just changes the way they couted the votes. Saying that people that did not vote actually voted against a recall. Then you get this FUD about how you can't change negotiators at this point in time as it would be too disruptive. In fact, you guys were told that the mediator might put you in recess. This is just one little pimple compared to your overalll situation but thought it might be interesting to find out your new leaders opinions on this matter. I know we had talked about the fact that the Philly leader had made a motion to remove Mr. Flores and his sidekick but the new Charlotte leader was not on the same page for some reason. Anyone know the status of this issue? I know there are many flames to be put out, but it would appear that most of them are traced back to your negotiating team. Meanwhile, as was stated above it appears that you company is little by little trying to navigate around the contract you already have. Really no sense negotiating a new contract if you can't hold them to a contract you already have.