AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[missthe727]

I was based in DCA.... we had no west coast....
I was also based in ROA.... we had no west coast..... Not until we merged with USAIr, did we have west cost trips.... OOPs I take that back in BWI we did.... I have a bunch of old trip pairings as proof...

you mean you didn't have the fabulous Dayton RONs coming in from LAX? This was back in 87/88 before the merger w/ US. In GSO on the 727 we went to CLT and picked up CLT pilots and then went on to to west coast. Nice long 16+ RON then back to DAY and if we didn't stop there we went up to CAK, LAN, DTW, SDF and Champaign (can't remember the city code but remember the huge bear in the lobby) to name just a few. We then would turn around and head back to the coast for anothernice long RON and then back East on day 4 in to CLT then on to GSO and got in 22-2300 at night. Trip paid 28+00 maybe even 29+00 hours...you need pairings from GSO or maybe CLT.

 

[diamondcutter]

Has anyone read the new e-line? If not go read it ... It has the latest company offer. No F ing way, please don't be fooled by the raise... They want us to give up way to much . Please Please stay informed. And if piece of sh&@ is presented to the members vote NO!!!!

 

[SparrowHawk]

Has anyone read the new e-line? If not go read it ... It has the latest company offer. No F ing way, please don't be fooled by the raise... They want us to give up way to much . Please Please stay informed. And if piece of sh&@ is presented to the members vote NO!!!!

Sound advice! One of my old bosses used to say "You have to look inside the numbers" Over the years his sage advice has saved me thousands of dollars. You're spot on in your advice. WELL SAID!

 

[ggiby]

Sound advice! One of my old bosses used to say "You have to look inside the numbers" Over the years his sage advice has saved me thousands of dollars. You're spot on in your advice. WELL SAID!

I agree sparrow..... Its BS....
The number one....... numero uno...... NUMBER #! thing that we never, never, never give up, is the SCOPE clause. Giving that up is not worth 100.00 hr raise .... Because the SCOPE clause protects
our seniority in the event of a merger. Especially in the event of an non AFA airline. (ie American) Which is the latest rumor. American will not protect us, will come up with some crazy way to
cut and paste us..... and put us near the bottom. Yes Congress passed laws to protect us.... but the law is nowhere good enough to protect us... So remember its all smoke and mirrors.

Also.... I encourage all to go to the union meetings that are now scheduled to hear our JNC to really know the full scope of what is going on in negioations. Get it get the full SCOPE of what is going
on and do not give up the Scope clause.

 

[ggiby]

I have 25 years. When we vote this contract down we can make the changes we want. The bidsheet doesnt have to close 2 days out unless we vote for the change. As far as Pref Bidding stop drinking the Flores Koolaid. This is a joint contract and America West doesnt have Pref Bidding language in their contract. There is no reason why we have to keep it in a joint contract when one side doesnt have it. This contract as it stands will never pass. Doug isnt going to give up the necessary money to bribe us to vote for it. As I see it there will be many sections that will have to be reopened and tweeked before we get one that will pass.

Nice point.... I did not realize that you don't have it in your contract.... So we can get rid of it on the East, as we now need the combined contract.
Thank you for pointing that out...

 

[ggiby]

you mean you didn't have the fabulous Dayton RONs coming in from LAX? This was back in 87/88 before the merger w/ US. In GSO on the 727 we went to CLT and picked up CLT pilots and then went on to to west coast. Nice long 16+ RON then back to DAY and if we didn't stop there we went up to CAK, LAN, DTW, SDF and Champaign (can't remember the city code but remember the huge bear in the lobby) to name just a few. We then would turn around and head back to the coast for anothernice long RON and then back East on day 4 in to CLT then on to GSO and got in 22-2300 at night. Trip paid 28+00 maybe even 29+00 hours...you need pairings from GSO or maybe CLT.

That was Jumers Castle lodge... We did not have high paying trips like that in DCA. But remember our min day was 4:00 hrs. We did stay in DAY yes and all of the cities you mention. And at the time I was in DCA, CLT was not a base. When they closed DCA, INT. GSO, ILM ... all at the same time.... they then opened BWI and CLT.

 

[galley princess]

Has anyone read the new e-line? If not go read it ... It has the latest company offer. No F ing way, please don't be fooled by the raise... They want us to give up way to much . Please Please stay informed. And if piece of sh&@ is presented to the members vote NO!!!!

After reading the eline I have to wonder.

Either they just ARE oblivious to the fact that they proposed completely unacceptable garbage, or they simply threw something at the NLB because they had to, OR we really are in the preliminary stages of a merger with another carrier, so they don't care about wasting the NLB's time.

At any rate, if they are oblivious and we are on a fast track to a strike vote, please keep a couple things in mind.

1. They lose more than we do almost immediately. Decreased bookings, uncertainty, stock fluctuations etc.
2. CHAOS does not require everyone to hit the street. It's targeted strikes, and they don't know when they're going to happen.
3. CHAOS uses volunteers.
4. Caselaw is already on the books as to the legality of CHAOS. I would EXPECT AFA to start sending out the exact nature of those laws.
5. We don't even have to start CHAOS right away to impose pain and uncertainty on US. There are unique assets to the EAST contract that allow us to just stay home and let them bleed. Assets that your current negotiators are ready to give away, I might add.
6. In this economic environment they have to have their heads examined to think that we'd give up scope.

Why this bunch doesn't get that paying people fairly and treating them well would yield much better results than taking us to the wall, I have no idea, this is their world, we just live in it.

Get your house in order, this is going to be ugly.

 

[diamondcutter]

Awesome post!!!!!

 

[missthe727]

That was Jumers Castle lodge... We did not have high paying trips like that in DCA. But remember our min day was 4:00 hrs. We did stay in DAY yes and all of the cities you mention. And at the time I was in DCA, CLT was not a base. When they closed DCA, INT. GSO, ILM ... all at the same time.... they then opened BWI and CLT.

That's right ! Jumer's Castle ! Had many a great RON there! GSO was open until 1991, it did not close when INT closed.

 

[flybynite]

Nice point.... I did not realize that you don't have it in your contract.... So we can get rid of it on the East, as we now need the combined contract.
Thank you for pointing that out...

Our pilots don't have PBS in their contract also. And they don't want it either.........Yes, we can get rid of it. What we have now is soooooo flexible..it's going to be hard to beat.

I've talked to enough flight crews with other airlines to know that PBS is a boon for the company.....

We agreed to PBS when we were in bankruptcy. If we had known at the time that the company was in merger talks with AWA....we would have never agreed to it. Lying, sneaky bastards....

It's time to put aside all agreements from our bankruptcy from 6 years ago and go forward.

 

[SKY HIGH]

There are unique assets to the EAST contract that allow us to just stay home and let them bleed. Assets that your current negotiators are ready to give away, I might add.
6. In this economic environment they have to have their heads examined to think that we'd give up scope.

........what baffles me is that we still have certain individuals on the JNC who have given the flight attendant group a concessionary tentative contract/agreement for over 25 years AND we have individuals who base their decisions on their OWN political future within AFA. Conflict of interest????

Hire LAWYERS!

 

[StewGuy86]

That was Jumers Castle lodge... We did not have high paying trips like that in DCA. But remember our min day was 4:00 hrs. We did stay in DAY yes and all of the cities you mention. And at the time I was in DCA, CLT was not a base. When they closed DCA, INT. GSO, ILM ... all at the same time.... they then opened BWI and CLT.

Actually they closed ILM and opened CLT at the same time...in December of '85 I believe. DCA and ATL were closed (and BWI opened) on the same day in May '87...also the day we started systemwide First Class and CLT-LGW flights. GSO didn't close until after the PI-US merger, IIRC.

 

[StewGuy86]

Wow...a month with no activity whatsoever on this thread? Are things really that quiet on the negotiations front or have FAs pretty much given up hope that there'll ever be an agreement? I know that as far as many East FAs are concerned, the snapbacks in January seem to have reduced some of their incentive for a new contract. And between the Preferential Bidding system the company wants to use and the dissatisfaction among reserves by some of the language in that section, would it even stand a chance?

 

[Harry Callahan]

Just curious what are your alls Jan. snapbacks ?

 

[ggiby]

Actually they closed ILM and opened CLT at the same time...in December of '85 I believe. DCA and ATL were closed (and BWI opened) on the same day in May '87...also the day we started systemwide First Class and CLT-LGW flights. GSO didn't close until after the PI-US merger, IIRC.

Yes just like I said... they closed all of our crew bases on the same day... ILM... DCA... GSO... ORF... then they opened... as new crew bases CLT and BWi... Clt was already a Pilot crew base... but remember we f/a's did not fly with our pilots... that was only usair...