AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[galley princess]

Actually, IMHO if you took out all of the "at scheduling's discretion" and made the rules a hard stop, the T/A isn't that bad. This of course would eliminate the buckets/ groups/ cadres whatever from the equation. Straight seniority, the use of shifts, no more 3 hour days but the 5+15 minimum day, all that is workable. Just take out the grey schmutz.

The Comany and union could easily deal with a potential staffing shortage on any given day/ time period by just creating a tool where all F/As or reserves would be allowed to pick up extra time and either bank/ be paid for it. This is used at other airlines and it's pretty specific.

Example: Fom 12/19-12/28 fly as much as you want. There's always a few high timers that will jump in and eliminate the open trips.

The problem with our current system is that it allows overfly the whole month. All that does is allow the mega senior to fly over from 12/01-12/15, thus leaving nothing for reserves until they get slammed close to Christmas, that helps neither the company or the F/As. We still go out short over the holidays and the reserves are abused. The only ones who benefit are the mega senior. Leave the month alone and target the time where you know there will be problems. Incentives are cheaper in the long run than this lousy restrictive mess they've constructed.

The reserve T/A is unfortunately a huge representation of how MF and CA don't have to deal with scheduling anymore. Sure, they may hear anecdotal evidence of the shenanigans that scheduling pulls, but actually living it? Decades away, hence their naive belief that "to scheduling's discretion" will be rare and not de rigeur.

Reserve rotation is DOA. That's just a hard reality at US. The numbers won't vote for it. If you want it, you have to go to an airline that enacted it twenty years ago and it's part of the culture.

 

[Itestwell]

Now that the cricket has gotten off the airplane, I do have to ask - does your seniority based reserve system for all F/As ( " seniority counts for everyone" ) include rotating reserve? Yes or no.

I love it... "your" seniority based reserve system....

The entire RSV T/A is available and printable on the AFA website.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

I love it... "your" seniority based reserve system....

The entire RSV T/A is available and printable on the AFA website.

That would be the one you're voting down-right? So what would the one you would presumably vote for look like? Would it contain rotating reserve? Yes or no.

 

[Itestwell]

That would be the one you're voting down-right? So what would the one you would presumably vote for look like? Would it contain rotating reserve? Yes or no.

Rotating reserve is off the table. There have been E- lines released where the JNC addressed this.

While the RSV T/A is obviously quite concessionary in nature, and does nothing to restore seniority (even though that is how it is being sold), there are other things that have been negotiated that may affect more senior people, not just reserves. All you have to do is attend one of the meetings, and these "enhancements" slip right out of the JNC's mouths, yet surprisingly have not made it to an E- Line as of yet: VAC (yes, the opening VAC proposal was shared with us), SCK, CLEANING, HOLIDAY RESTRICTION, to name a few.

 

[PHLfa88]

We all must understand that Mike is grabbing at straws now. He has negotiated a terrible contract that only shines brightly in his world. I hear more and more people saying that they are voting no. Hell, the company wanted more than one round of concessions so why would you vote YES for something the first time even if you thought it was ok? The contract is terrible. Oh and FYI, since the union wants to play games with all of the signatures collected to recall Mike and Carol the new petition is going around to recall the local officers. Get ready to sign it. YOUR voice is being silenced by your LEC. Not an opinion but a fact. AFA Int'l is playing right along right up to the old witch Miss Friend herself. If we really want to make a difference we need to recall the officers who vote Mike into office. Don't hesitate to sign it regardless of if you are a friend of someone currently elected. It's for the will of the people.

I Always thought there was something fishy about All those signitures...Plus Half of the Senior biddys have NO idear what they were signing..!! For me..Nope..Not signing..! And you can call me Any name you want to..NEVER CARED!!

 

[PHLfa88]

Actually, IMHO if you took out all of the "at scheduling's discretion" and made the rules a hard stop, the T/A isn't that bad. This of course would eliminate the buckets/ groups/ cadres whatever from the equation. Straight seniority, the use of shifts, no more 3 hour days but the 5+15 minimum day, all that is workable. Just take out the grey schmutz.

The Comany and union could easily deal with a potential staffing shortage on any given day/ time period by just creating a tool where all F/As or reserves would be allowed to pick up extra time and either bank/ be paid for it. This is used at other airlines and it's pretty specific.

Example: Fom 12/19-12/28 fly as much as you want. There's always a few high timers that will jump in and eliminate the open trips.

The problem with our current system is that it allows overfly the whole month. All that does is allow the mega senior to fly over from 12/01-12/15, thus leaving nothing for reserves until they get slammed close to Christmas, that helps neither the company or the F/As. We still go out short over the holidays and the reserves are abused. The only ones who benefit are the mega senior. Leave the month alone and target the time where you know there will be problems. Incentives are cheaper in the long run than this lousy restrictive mess they've constructed.

The reserve T/A is unfortunately a huge representation of how MF and CA don't have to deal with scheduling anymore. Sure, they may hear anecdotal evidence of the shenanigans that scheduling pulls, but actually living it? Decades away, hence their naive belief that "to scheduling's discretion" will be rare and not de rigeur.

Reserve rotation is DOA. That's just a hard reality at US. The numbers won't vote for it. If you want it, you have to go to an airline that enacted it twenty years ago and it's part of the culture.

" At scheduling's discretion" Should have Never been in there..I have to agree!! Nothing shoud be "At scheduling's Discretion" NOTHING!! PERIOD!

 

[MyrnaMinkoff]

Now that the cricket has gotten off the airplane, I do have to ask - does your seniority based reserve system for all F/As ( " seniority counts for everyone" ) include rotating reserve? Yes or no.

Who said anything about rotating reserve? If that were the case (be easy, sweetheart, it never will be), of course seniority should count. I don't know what about my call for unmitigated, unmolested, transparent, bald-faced, naked seniority was vague to you, but I'll say it again, seniority is THE most fundamental tenant of organized labor and should be recognized as such, and its restoration to reserves should have been job one for the JNC in negotiating a new system.

What about the beleaguered reserve veterans' call for seniority do you find objectionable? You've responded to my posts with ridiculous didactic questions, designed to render me idiotic when it comes to grown-up contractual matters, and although I think you probably know that reserves aren't falling for your phony earnest attempt at being thought-provoking, you may believe a few others who read these posts might. "Wow, Be Careful What You Wish For sure has made me think about how these reserves really don't any clue about what it is they want!" "Those reserves should just accept that part of the contract since none of them has a better proposal!" Even the name, Be Careful What You Wish For, is a tsk-tsking finger in the face of all of us tired of having what we have wished for for years summarily dismissed, and your childish Aesopian caveats ring hollow these days.

Let me reiterate: I have not masqueraded as one who is capable of crafting the small details of an equitable and livable reserve system. I don't know, and I was under the impression that therein lies the usefulness in paying union dues, to have competent, committed professionals advocating on behalf of the entire membership. This reserve TA is tantamount to a bit**-slap by Flores et. al on behalf of the omnipotent alpha pimp, Sweet Daddy Parker.

 

[MyrnaMinkoff]

Who said anything about rotating reserve? If that were the case (be easy, sweetheart, it never will be), of course seniority should count. I don't know what about my call for unmitigated, unmolested, transparent, bald-faced, naked seniority was vague to you, but I'll say it again, seniority is THE most fundamental tenant of organized labor and should be recognized as such, and its restoration to reserves should have been job one for the JNC in negotiating a new system.

What about the beleaguered reserve veterans' call for seniority do you find objectionable? You've responded to my posts with ridiculous didactic questions, designed to render me idiotic when it comes to grown-up contractual matters, and although I think you probably know that reserves aren't falling for your phony earnest attempt at being thought-provoking, you may believe a few others who read these posts might. "Wow, Be Careful What You Wish For sure has made me think about how these reserves really don't any clue about what it is they want!" "Those reserves should just accept that part of the contract since none of them has a better proposal!" Even the name, Be Careful What You Wish For, is a tsk-tsking finger in the face of all of us tired of having what we have wished for for years summarily dismissed, and your childish Aesopian caveats ring hollow these days.

Let me reiterate: I have not masqueraded as one who is capable of crafting the small details of an equitable and livable reserve system. I don't know, and I was under the impression that therein lies the usefulness in paying union dues, to have competent, committed professionals advocating on behalf of the entire membership. This reserve TA is tantamount to a bit**-slap by Flores et. al on behalf of the omnipotent alpha pimp, Sweet Daddy Parker.

 

[MyrnaMinkoff]

Apologies because I've somehow, in my ineptitude, posted comments twice. The few posts I've made here constitute my lifelong participation in a "blogging" (or whatever the kids are calling it). I'm not particularly gifted when in comes to technology-based hocus-pocus like removing a duplicate post, but I shall endeavor to prevent it from happening again.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Gee, what a wind bag. So you're all for senority! Glad to hear it.

 

[MyrnaMinkoff]

Gee, what a wind bag. So you're all for senority! Glad to hear it.

A windbag perhaps, but only in the service of answering questions that you, Milady, posed regarding my posts. You asked and I answered, and now, bereft of any defensible position, you're dismissing me as a windbag. How about a quid pro quo instead? You didn't answer my question, that is, what about a demand for seniority in the reserve system is objectionable to you? And, is the logical corollary, an AIL with malleable seniority, also acceptable? As you asked me regarding seniority in some imaginary rotating reserve system you plucked out of nowhere, "Yes or no?" What of it?

Wow, your tone sure has taken a turn for the nasty! Consider me chastised!

 

[beachboy]

Lord, pot meet Kettle. A windbag ? Come on here who are ya fooling? Be Careful got his a** spanked...LOL Love it and great post. Someone is running scared or just doesn't care. Their legacy is going down in flames. Can't wait to read the memoires on sale at Barnes and Noble...on the 75% off shelf.

 

[2clippedwings]

Apologies because I've somehow, in my ineptitude, posted comments twice. The few posts I've made here constitute my lifelong participation in a "blogging" (or whatever the kids are calling it). I'm not particularly gifted when in comes to technology-based hocus-pocus like removing a duplicate post, but I shall endeavor to prevent it from happening again.

Your few posts on the board are the polar opposite of ineptitude. Keep 'em coming.

 

[Travelpro72]

Myrna, with posts like that we'll see less and less of posters like "Be careful and ohhhh let us not forget OhReally and his Mystic sidekick". Someone's ship is sinking and they don't have a life jacket to keep their garbage afloat. Since we're all reading along here, I'd love to hear an answer to Myrna's question as well. Que the Jeopardy coundown music. 🙄

 

[MyrnaMinkoff]

Myrna, with posts like that we'll see less and less of posters like "Be careful and ohhhh let us not forget OhReally and his Mystic sidekick". Someone's ship is sinking and they don't have a life jacket to keep their garbage afloat. Since we're all reading along here, I'd love to hear an answer to Myrna's question as well. Que the Jeopardy coundown music. 🙄

I know, I'm still awaiting his answer. Apropos of nothing, I was operating under the assumption that Be Careful What You Wish For was a woman (shades of Marie Antoinette, I thought), but now I have discovered with a click on the name it's possible to view a profile, and while not very fleshed-out, it did contain information that confirmed I was incorrect about gender.

This windbag is eagerly standing-by in anticipation of your reply, Mr. Be Careful. Drop out of The Jerry Springer School of Discourse and Debate (they offer an online degree in creative name-calling, I understand--clearly you haven't finished the coursework), and come back to the grown-up table where sane and rational adults exchange ideas and engage in discussion.