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AFA labor discussion (Work related)

Not sure if you're referring to me in the second line of your post, but since you followed up Zarah's post I assume you mean me. Both you and Zarah need to know that I'm at the bottom of the F/A seniority list in PHL.....you two are senior to me! That said, I'll say it again.....I have NEVER BEEN ASSIGNED INTO OFF DAYS!! The notion that this sort of thing happens all the time is a load of crock!

Good for you that you've never been assigned into your off days. It's absurd that you think your experiences are universal to all FA's.
Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it hasn't happen to others. I'm trying to comprehend why you feel as if you can speak for all FA's...
 
It is so nice not having to deal with the contract issues anymore now that I have retired. That said, I feel very sorry for those still with the company and dealing with the upcoming contract. Or so you should hope. Some of you have mentioned on this post of recalling the negotiators. Bad move. You haven't even seen anything they have produced yet. It has been years in negotiating and you want to scratch everything and start from scratch. Don't be fools. If the company gets a chance to walk away from the table and allow the present BK conditions to prevail, who wins? You guessed it,the company.

You may or may not like what CA or MF have produced for you, but you had better at least take a look at it before you nix the whole deal, and give yourself a few more years of same o, same o. Remember, you are just F/A's. You aren't entitled to anything more that what you negotiate. And regardless of what they come up with, there will always be something in there you don't like. You can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time. It just ain't happening.

Happy Trails to all...

Just my opinion...
 
It is possible for a flight attendant to be assigned into an OFF day but that happening as a whole is rare. There has to be NOT ONE F/A available before they can start taking days off away. YES it can happen but for even the MOST JUNIOR f/a have this happen quite regularly is a stretch. Again, not saying it doesn't happen but all the time? NO WAY! ! ! That said, who would vote yes for the new reserve t/a simply to not be assigned into their OFF days once in a blue moon? 🙄
 
It is possible for a flight attendant to be assigned into an OFF day but that happening as a whole is rare. There has to be NOT ONE F/A available before they can start taking days off away. YES it can happen but for even the MOST JUNIOR f/a have this happen quite regularly is a stretch. Again, not saying it doesn't happen but all the time? NO WAY! ! ! That said, who would vote yes for the new reserve t/a simply to not be assigned into their OFF days once in a blue moon? 🙄

Thank you.
 
Good for you that you've never been assigned into your off days. It's absurd that you think your experiences are universal to all FA's.
Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it hasn't happen to others. I'm trying to comprehend why you feel as if you can speak for all FA's...

I'm adamant about this point because MF has negotiated away our ability to choose our trips because he's under the impression that, for Reserves, this is better than being assigned into OFF days. I'd rather take the chance of being assigned into an OFF day once in a blue moon than lose my ability, EVERY DAY FOR THE LENGTH OF THIS CONTRACT, to pick a trip that suits me.

Hopefully this contract will be rejected the first go-round and when the union puts out a questionnaire asking the members what part(s) of the contract they do not like, one of my reasons will be that I do not like the idea of Scheduling limiting my choice of trips. Again, I'd rather take the chance of a rare assignment into my OFF days and maintain my ability to pick and choose a trip that suits me.
 
Is anyone else sick of OneStep's posts considering he/she is a "friend" of a crewmember and seems to be a know it all. Why don't you come work here and see what its really like rather than post based on what your friend is telling you what its like! Nothing personal just saying its easy to comment being on the outside and not actually living it.

I am sorry you feel the way you do. I am not just a friend to a crewmember. I have many friends that are US employees which include crewmembers. All I will say is people that give me information know that I will be posting here. They have told me they do not wish to be involved directly so I can't name names. This is no different than many other folks here. Some people you know and some remain nameless. This is an anonymous web board after all. ANY info that is on here should be treated with some hesitation. There has been a lot of information shared here that has turned out to be not as accurate as it first appeared. It is a fact of life that sometimes we do not always get it right. That includes you and I. I got something wrong on here and have offered my apologizes.

I certainly am not trying to be a know it all. I take in information and offer an opinion. Sometimes those opinions may differ from others. We will not all agree 100% of the time. I do not take what you say personally. Emotions are high and you guys don't seem to be getting your questions answered. If I understand you correctly, I should come work for your company instead of posting about it. Again, I am sorry you feel that way. My opinions here have repeatedly been on the side of the employees. My opinion may sometimes differ on you you may achieve the change you are looking for. That may be because I am like you pointed out an outsider. I am not trying to tell you how to do anything. I just offer opinion of what you may consider to achieve the results you are trying to achieve. It doe not make my way the best way just another way to consider. I am not sure that I need to work there to sympathize with you plight. Besides, In this time in my life it is a choice that I can't make. I have been where I am for a long time. Like many of you, I can't just pick up and change my career path at this time. I think it might have been fun at a younger person than I am today.

Hope you will reconsider any objection you have to my posting here. I have enjoyed listening to all of the stories on here. If you disagree with what I say please feel free to let me know. If I post something inaccurate, please correct me. We can all learn from each other. I never said I am all knowing or that I am always correct.
 
To valuesrok:


Are you seriously "beyond fuming" because I had the audacity to invoke THE most fundamental maxim of organized labor--seniority--something that has been missing from the lives of reserves (like me) who have been working under this intolerable system for the better part of a decade now? Is it your position that to prevent someone hired today from ever having a day off taken away, at twelve years service, it is incumbent upon me to sacrifice my seniority vis-a-vis trip selection? In my "career," a day off was taken from me exactly twice, and this even during years of existing in the darkest dregs of the system seniority list--and I mean YEARS without a glimmer of hope that the quick-calls would someday stop. Implicit in the idea of seniority is some measure of "dues-paying," i.e., you start at the bottom where you will likely be required to accept some of the worst assignments, but you do it because you have some assurance in a seniority-based system that conditions will improve incrementally over time as some retire and others take your place at the very bottom. We have been forced, yes FORCED!, to suspend those ideals indefinitely in the reserve kingdom because seniority amounts to nothing and Lord Parker doesn't cotton to the plebes exceeding a minimum guarantee. And I was under the impression that "golden days," the equivalent to "inviolable days," (you call it corn, we call it maize), were just that, and not subject to the caprices of the scheduling department. I have hope, though waning now, for a contract that is fair and live-with-able for everyone, but it all starts with unmitigated, unmolested, transparent seniority; why would any of us continue otherwise? Think of it...someday it could be you or me smearing pilfered Camembert onto a fancy wafer cracker as we survey our Europe-bound charges from the CSD command center, understanding, finally, the meaning of nirvana as we settle into a roomy reclining first-class seat for a three-hour nap.

Dismiss seniority at your own peril, because the day will come when you are "beyond fuming" that someone newly arrived on the property is soaking up Caribbean sunshine on a long overnight (well, perhaps we shouldn't kid o, those layovers don't exist, but you know what I mean) while you're doing five legs a day for three days with short double Newark overnights, all because you were available for three days while she was only good for two. The thing is, it's not "either/or," because I don't like four-day trips doesn't mean that you will be forced to work on a scheduled day off. That's not the only solution to trip coverage, though management would have you believe that it is. In any case, allowing any exceptions to a seniority-based system is a slippery slope toward granting the company carte blanche to tweak and twist and manipulate the contract as they please.

Truer words were never spoken. Go ask a pilot what the seniority
based reserve system used to be versue what they have now.
You fly what the scheduler tells you to fly for the most part.

NICDOA
NPJB
 
Nobody expects you to admit it Onestep2flt but the majority would suspect you to be a flight attendant. My other half of almost 14 years is very analytical in nature but knows nowhere near what your friends tell you to post. Many of us here have been doing this job for years....YEARS I tell ya and a f/a or "airline employee" isn't hard to spot regardless of how hard a poster tries. It's like Mike as OhReally or Carol as his Mystic sidekick. :lol:
 
At first I dismissed OneStep as Flight Attendant afraid of the company finding out they were posting on a message board. Then they said, "In my job I follow the principle of the Chinese philosopher Sun Tsu in his writings on military strategy called the Art of War. You should know ones enemy! I must know what a competitor is doing or I die. I have worked this into my personal life with a variation."

So, now I dismiss them as management.

=)
 
Zarah, how did I miss this? You are SOOOO right. I couldn't put my finger on it but you hit it dead on.
 
You bring up a good point. Are we supposed to just blindly accept what we hear from someone who says things like "there are lots of petitions going around" or "everybody knows" or "it's painfully clear" at face value? Or believe the amazingly cruel personal lies that are being circulated about Carol? That's rumor mongering, gossip, and slander. And it weakens the union. Perhaps there are those who have that goal in mind? I don't know of a single FA who has the knowledge, brains, and the guts to take Carol's place. Can anyone let us know who does?
I will take Carol Austin's Place... she needs to go... she has harding of her arteries.... she is a dinosaur and needs to go.... how freekin old is she? She screwed us PI folks w/ our pension and SS...
get rid of her.... NOW
dinosaur
 
Ok, ok. You want her to go, you want Mike to go. Has anything tangeable happened other than alot of posturing?
 
Ok, ok. You want her to go, you want Mike to go. Has anything tangeable happened other than alot of posturing?
I never said I wanted Mike to go. I think Mike does a good job. Carol has never done anything good for us in the 29 years that I have been here, and watched her squander my pension away. Do you know that we all have different pension packages here? It depends on which airline you worked for. Some of us have SS offset, some don't. The Old Piedmont People have the most drastic pensions. Oh Guess what? Carol did not ever work for Piedmont? Guess who got the best one? If any of got anything?
 
"View PostMAAMARCH04, on 10 November 2010 - 09:20 PM, said:
Not sure if you're referring to me in the second line of your post, but since you followed up Zarah's post I assume you mean me. Both you and Zarah need to know that I'm at the bottom of the F/A seniority list in PHL.....you two are senior to me! That said, I'll say it again.....I have NEVER BEEN ASSIGNED INTO OFF DAYS!! The notion that this sort of thing happens all the time is a load of crock!"

If you are at the bottom of the PHL reserve list then you are senior to me. I was displaced out of PHL.
 
What follows is excerpted from AFA's latest e-mail. The condescending smarmy tone in recounting this "very unusual" (read: fictional) exchange and what commentary followed rightly annoyed me.

I witnessed a very unusual exchange between two flight attendants in the CLT crew room. I noticed a small group of flight attendants involved in a discussion surrounding contract negotiations. The exchange went like this:

F/A 1 -"Do you have a bag tag?"

F/A 2 - "A bag tag for what?"

F/A 1 - "A bag tag that says, Vote No."

F/A 2 - "Vote No for what?"

F/A 1 - "The contract"

F/A 2 - "Do we have a contract to vote on yet?"

F/A 1 - "No, but just vote no anyway?"



I have witnessed hundreds of not-so-unusual crew room exchanges about the forthcoming contract, especially since the reserve section of the TA has been unveiled, (that small morsel alone contains amply sufficient reason for me to commit to a "no" vote right now), and none of them have ever followed that narrative. The e-mail continues with an indictment of Facebook:


This article is not intended to sway anyone's opinion in either direction. How can it? You don't have all the information yet because some very key components of the agreement are still under negotiation.

The growth of social networking over the past decade has changed much about the way we all think and act regarding negations. If it is on Facebook, then it must be true. It may or may not be. When the company went into bankruptcy in 2004, Facebook had five members - the inventors. Today, over 500 million people - one in fourteen- use the site. While at times a powerful tool, it is often a forum for people to spread opinions rather than facts.



I am not, nor have I ever been a member of any of the myfacespacebook websites, and my NO is not predicated on anything other than what AFA has gone on the record with in releasing the reserve section of the TA. Period. That's a deal-breaker for me. And to imply that anyone who is already fixed on voting no, especially one who will be required to live under the aforementioned reserve agreement, is operating from a position of ignorance or ingratitude is just more delusional spineless spin.

The e-mail was not signed, not by Flores or any of The Henchmen. I wonder what member of the cadre authored this official AFA missive, because I'd like to know who is lurking around the crew rooms and quoting "unusual exchanges" in AFA-sanctioned correspondences. I'd like to see an actual transcript of some of the conversations that really do take place, and an official AFA defense against the legitimate beefs that are discussed every day in crew rooms all over the system.
 

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