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My NO had been ready since we heard about the Reserve Section.
That was enough for me! 😛
AFA labor discussion (Work related)
- Thread starter Edward
- Start date
My NO had been ready since we heard about the Reserve Section.
That was enough for me! 😛
Debbie~
We have had media coverage on our food bank, although not as extensive as we would like. About 2 weeks ago the local FOX news station had a story on the Pantry of Love and even made mention about the protracted negotiations.
Unless the media can get FAs on camera that uses the food bank, they are not interested in the story. Naturally we can't compell a member to go public. Most are very embarassed when they come to the office to utilize the food bank. We have a policy in the MEC office, Flight Attendants don't have to identify themselves by name or explain the reason they need to "shop at the food bank". We give them complete privacy and don't stand over them while they gather their food items.
The other issues related to negotiations.....I hear you loud and clear. I understand you are exercising your rights as a member to make changes. I'll even go as far as to admitt I didn't know the East Reserve section well at all. When I got involved with the JNC it was the beginning of June and the section was done except for the open issue of minimum days off. (and no, I don't believe that is an acceptable answer, but that is the answer).
Anyway, thank you for your feedback....I do take this job very seriously for all FAs, East and West.
Deborah
PS - I was completely bummed out when Argentina lost in the World Cup.
flybynite
Veteran
I have to laugh at this..."I have been told they are using signatures from when we were first hired."
Where are you guys getting this loony tune stuff? And do you really believe it?!
Signatures get disqualified when there are multiples. As in someone signs it multiple times. The way it was handled the last time....multiple petitions all over the place....people signing it again and again. Whoops...you can only sign once. It's only counted once.
That's what the verification process is all about.
Toothy Grin
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Sigh. Late night rambling, sort of.........
Wow. The last few pages really illustrate the differences between the two unions.
What I find most interesting is the comments about the reserve section when other sections related to it are not even finished yet. PBS, did everyone receive a blueprint for it? Then how do you know you don't like it? Same for vacation...we on the West have had discussions about it already and it is not drastically different than what we have now in regards to flexibility.
The topic of side letters and the other ideas and suggestions were presented to the union and the union to the company 5 years ago and over and over again. Reporting the West's plight to the news media is just old news. I don't recall many East fas, pilots joining our protests at the company shareholder meetings or at the media day. The idea of starting one unified web board for both fligh attendant unions was discussed at least 6 months ago.
We have asked for East support time and time again and all we get 'is how much we've been through." An example of the lack of support from the East is the "NO" to the West proposal to let West FA's transfer to the east as the most junior fa's. Several have spouted off about wanting the JNC to work for all flight attendants, but someone on the East apparently doesn't feel the same way. If this was Mike that vetoed this then it was a stupid move for too many reasons to mention here. I haven't any fondness for Mike and never have so if your ouster works then fine by me.
If I may speak for Deb for a moment, I believe when she says "don't trust me..." she is asking all of you to read the contract in its entirety and to make up your mind as an individual that makes a decision based upon what is correct for you and your life and then, those with whom you work. In short, there are many on here who are just voting NO without having any real understanding of how the contract will work. Get the facts, remain stable, remain balanced and ask questions.
'If you are releasing info to the west and not the east there is some explanation needed. No matter what you guys have convinced yourselves of, you have an obligation to represent ALL US Airways flight attendants fairly. That includes the sharing of information.'
I truly believe the west portion of the JNC is representing all fas. The only explanation i can think of for why we are receiving more information is because our Union trys very hard to be available. They have blogs, they stop in to the 'hot' room to see if anyone has any questions and of course there is the telephone. ..and if someone places a call to the Union and the message is not returned they crab out on the web board and it is taken from there. I suppose you could say that the West Union did hold a few informational sessions, but truly, the informational sessions never stopped because members were always able to ask questions and receive answers on the West web board. I am surmizing that you do not have this fluidity on the East, in fact, I know you don't or I would not have read some of the finger pointing and angst over the last few pages.
I'd like to say perhaps now is the time to revisit the idea of an E/W board to further help unify and EDUCATE the two groups, but as much as some on here are stating that we should be seeing ourselves as one group it is hard to believe that when your MEC nixed the reciprocal agreement proposal made by the West. BTW, part of the purpose of the reciprocal agreement was to allow those fa's struggling through life here on the West to stay with the company and allow them to make enough money to LIVE by transferring to the East. If I remember correctly, they would lose all accrued seniority except for travel priveledges which would remain at the same original year of hire. So when some of you talk about being "michael row your boat ashore" you know we're rolling our eyes especially after a stunt like your mec just pulled, but we still keep trying. Why? because we like you so much.
Finally, remember that negotiations take time to put together and disemble. You know this already, so why am I reading all of this talk of "walk away" when you know full well that you have not read and do not have a true understanding of how one section relates to another.
One last comment for tonight is instead of asking Deb to explain certain specifics of what is making you mad you took her time and wasted it on "you should be doing this or that"...I'll say it again...remain balanced ask for an explanation of the segments you don't like to make sure that your understanding of the proposal is accurate.
Why is it so hard to say "Hey Deb, I'm an East FA and my friends tell me that the new vacation proposal stinks! Could you please tell me what it is when you have a chance?" or if you already know what it is ask: "I don't like the way the new vacation proposal is looking I thought it would offer more flexibility? What happened?" Seriously, it takes her time to write out responses and she's sick with a sinus infection. If your looking for clarity and answers don't beat around the bush, just ask - what, how, when.
One thing to remember is that she may not be able to post answers to your questions on this board.
Geez, with all this spewing I'm going to have to change my screen name to Father Karras.
And they all lived happily everafter.............
~
Wow. The last few pages really illustrate the differences between the two unions.
What I find most interesting is the comments about the reserve section when other sections related to it are not even finished yet. PBS, did everyone receive a blueprint for it? Then how do you know you don't like it? Same for vacation...we on the West have had discussions about it already and it is not drastically different than what we have now in regards to flexibility.
The topic of side letters and the other ideas and suggestions were presented to the union and the union to the company 5 years ago and over and over again. Reporting the West's plight to the news media is just old news. I don't recall many East fas, pilots joining our protests at the company shareholder meetings or at the media day. The idea of starting one unified web board for both fligh attendant unions was discussed at least 6 months ago.
We have asked for East support time and time again and all we get 'is how much we've been through." An example of the lack of support from the East is the "NO" to the West proposal to let West FA's transfer to the east as the most junior fa's. Several have spouted off about wanting the JNC to work for all flight attendants, but someone on the East apparently doesn't feel the same way. If this was Mike that vetoed this then it was a stupid move for too many reasons to mention here. I haven't any fondness for Mike and never have so if your ouster works then fine by me.
If I may speak for Deb for a moment, I believe when she says "don't trust me..." she is asking all of you to read the contract in its entirety and to make up your mind as an individual that makes a decision based upon what is correct for you and your life and then, those with whom you work. In short, there are many on here who are just voting NO without having any real understanding of how the contract will work. Get the facts, remain stable, remain balanced and ask questions.
'If you are releasing info to the west and not the east there is some explanation needed. No matter what you guys have convinced yourselves of, you have an obligation to represent ALL US Airways flight attendants fairly. That includes the sharing of information.'
I truly believe the west portion of the JNC is representing all fas. The only explanation i can think of for why we are receiving more information is because our Union trys very hard to be available. They have blogs, they stop in to the 'hot' room to see if anyone has any questions and of course there is the telephone. ..and if someone places a call to the Union and the message is not returned they crab out on the web board and it is taken from there. I suppose you could say that the West Union did hold a few informational sessions, but truly, the informational sessions never stopped because members were always able to ask questions and receive answers on the West web board. I am surmizing that you do not have this fluidity on the East, in fact, I know you don't or I would not have read some of the finger pointing and angst over the last few pages.
I'd like to say perhaps now is the time to revisit the idea of an E/W board to further help unify and EDUCATE the two groups, but as much as some on here are stating that we should be seeing ourselves as one group it is hard to believe that when your MEC nixed the reciprocal agreement proposal made by the West. BTW, part of the purpose of the reciprocal agreement was to allow those fa's struggling through life here on the West to stay with the company and allow them to make enough money to LIVE by transferring to the East. If I remember correctly, they would lose all accrued seniority except for travel priveledges which would remain at the same original year of hire. So when some of you talk about being "michael row your boat ashore" you know we're rolling our eyes especially after a stunt like your mec just pulled, but we still keep trying. Why? because we like you so much.
Finally, remember that negotiations take time to put together and disemble. You know this already, so why am I reading all of this talk of "walk away" when you know full well that you have not read and do not have a true understanding of how one section relates to another.
One last comment for tonight is instead of asking Deb to explain certain specifics of what is making you mad you took her time and wasted it on "you should be doing this or that"...I'll say it again...remain balanced ask for an explanation of the segments you don't like to make sure that your understanding of the proposal is accurate.
Why is it so hard to say "Hey Deb, I'm an East FA and my friends tell me that the new vacation proposal stinks! Could you please tell me what it is when you have a chance?" or if you already know what it is ask: "I don't like the way the new vacation proposal is looking I thought it would offer more flexibility? What happened?" Seriously, it takes her time to write out responses and she's sick with a sinus infection. If your looking for clarity and answers don't beat around the bush, just ask - what, how, when.
One thing to remember is that she may not be able to post answers to your questions on this board.
Geez, with all this spewing I'm going to have to change my screen name to Father Karras.
And they all lived happily everafter.............
~
flybynite
Veteran
This is nice to hear from the west. I know we here on the east don't always take you into consideration. Our bad. Or someone's bad.
As you can tell from all the squabbling on our board, that things aren't going well right now. Hopefully this will be taken care of soon.
<_<
flybynite
Veteran
I never said I support the contract....that I haven't seen...that's being negotiated.
You are making assumptions based on your imperfect impressions. Again.
And why are you trying so hard to take a stab at me? Grow up.
flybynite
Veteran
I never said I support the contract....that I haven't seen...that's being negotiated.
You are making assumptions based on your imperfect impressions. Again.
And why are you trying so hard to take a stab at me? Grow up.
songbirdstew
Senior
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- 478
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- 51
Um, EXCUSE ME. I was based in PIT at that time and there was no reserve chair in PIT. Someone suggested I contact Cathy in CLT regarding an OPR problem. At that time she was the CLT reserve chair. As I said, she did help me AND she did a great job but later she called me and asked me to help her out in CLT by flying down there and going through documents at the LEC office---I said no and she got angry and told me "I owed her." I stand by this and it DID happen. There is merit to my statement and it is not a story.
If we're going to start the "your based somewhere else so you shouldn't post on this subject" , let's look at a few of the other posters on here in support of Cathy. Another who is posting A LOT is also a PHL F/A and another is a previous union president who no longer works here.
I personally would not vote anyone in to office that thinks they are "owed" anything for helping someone else out and doing what they were appointed to do which was being the RSV chair....even if I have never been based in CLT. When I was the Council Rep in PIT and years ago in GSO, I didn't keep tabs on who I helped and tried to call in favors later for doing the job I was elected to do. That's not what I consider serving in office to be about. I won't apologise for having morals and values....
Career Reserve
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then you are stating Irell from International is a loony tune because she is the one who told us that
Al Legheny
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One way to get around this problem to some extent and to let AFA national know you mean business with the Department of Labor is to add a decleration, under penalty of law, of the cirulator. This is used in all recall petitions in California. Below is an excerpt from the California Department of Elections regarding recall petitions.
PROCEDURE
FOR
RECALLING STATE
AND
LOCAL OFFICIALS
FOR
RECALLING STATE
AND
LOCAL OFFICIALS
3. Declaration of Circulator
Each section of the petition must have attached to it a declaration
signed by the circulator (person soliciting signatures) of that section
of the petition, setting forth in the circulator's own hand all of the
following:
(a) the printed name of the circulator; (and AFA member number + US Airways payroll number)
4 Legislative intent was to delete any address information from the petition. Proponents are those voters
who initiate the recall proceedings and have control of the circulation of and obtaining signatures to the
recall petition.
(B) the residence address of the circulator, (AFA Domicile) giving street and number, or if no street or number exists, adequate designation of residence so that the location may be readily determined;
(c) the dates between which all signatures to the petition section were obtained.
The declaration must also include:
(d) that the circulator circulated that section and witnessed the appended signatures being written;
(e) that according to the best information and belief of the circulator, each signature is the genuine signature of the person whose name it purports to be; (The signatories should be asked to provide AFA status and domicile.)
(f) that the circulator is a registered voter of the electoral jurisdiction of the officer sought to be recalled;
(g) that the circulator certifies to the content of the declaration as to its truth and correctness, under penalty of perjury. The circulator shall state the date and the place of execution on the declaration along with his or her signature. The circulator must personally affix his or her printed name and residence address and the specific dates of circulation of each petition section in the circulator's affidavit. Preprinted dates, or
generalized dates other than the particular range of dates on which the petition section was circulated, are not authorized.
[See Exhibit D] (§§104, 11046)
DECLARATION OF PERSON CIRCULATING SECTION OF RECALL PETITION
(MUST BE IN CIRCULATOR’S OWN HANDWRITING)
I(SeeNote7)____________________________________________________________declare:
1. My US Airways Domicile is:_________________________________________
, and I am a member in good standing of the Association of Flight Attendants, (AFA);
2. I personally circulated the attached petition for signing;
3. I witnessed each of the appended signatures being written on the petition and to my best information
and belief, each signature is the genuine signature of the person whose name it purports to be; and
4. The appended signatures were obtained between the dates of_(Starting Date)(signature #)________________
and _(Ending Date)(Signature #)__________________________, inclusive.
I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of
true and correct.
Executed on_(Date)_________________at_(City or Community Where Signed)___________,
California.8
SIGNED__________________________________________________________
1 Insert here - Secretary of State of California if for a state officer, or name of the appropriate governing body if local.
The authority which orders or “calls” elections for that office, or the governing authority for that jurisdiction should be
named.
2 Insert Electoral Jurisdiction here - County, City, District name, as appropriate.
3 Insert geographical location here - City, County, etc., as appropriate.
4 Insert here - name of person whose recall is being sought.
5 Insert here - name of office.
6 In case of Supreme Court or Appellate Court Justice, request shall be that the Governor appoint a successor.
7 Insert here - Full name of person who gathered signatures.
8 The petition must be set in at least 8point type. If signature spaces are printed on both sides of a sheet of paper,
the above information, except for the declaration of circulator must appear on each side of the paper. The circulator’s
declaration must follow the last signature box. It is suggested that petitions be printed on 8 ½” x 14” paper in order to
maximize the number of signature spaces printed on a sheet of paper.
SOS 1/23/03
This type of decleration will hold up in court if the person who circulated the petition is willing to testify to the authenticity of the signatures and the method of gathering. Direct verbal testimony is at least as valid as a signature.
Travelpro72
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A few points.
1. There is NOTHING that will come along with this contract language to accept what has been shown to the flight attendant group.
2. I have not heard ONE east flight attendant say they don't care about the west flight attendants or want them screwed over in any way.
3. We want and deserve for ALL flight attendants both east and west and all bases a JNC that has ALL our best interests at heart. THEY CURRENTLY DO NOT.
4. As for Cathy in CLT she will do a hell of a lot more than Anne has done while in office. Over the last few years can anyone tell me what she has done so monumental? I can't WAIT to hear this one. And NO, I'm not talking about how she personally got a claim paid or answered the phone late on a Sunday. What has she done for THE MEMBERSHIP? Again......I'm expecting crickets.
5. The recall in PHL is well under way and the signatures are there. Can someone make sure they have a camera again to snap both John and Grace's face as they receive them? It will be photo worthy to say the least.
1. There is NOTHING that will come along with this contract language to accept what has been shown to the flight attendant group.
2. I have not heard ONE east flight attendant say they don't care about the west flight attendants or want them screwed over in any way.
3. We want and deserve for ALL flight attendants both east and west and all bases a JNC that has ALL our best interests at heart. THEY CURRENTLY DO NOT.
4. As for Cathy in CLT she will do a hell of a lot more than Anne has done while in office. Over the last few years can anyone tell me what she has done so monumental? I can't WAIT to hear this one. And NO, I'm not talking about how she personally got a claim paid or answered the phone late on a Sunday. What has she done for THE MEMBERSHIP? Again......I'm expecting crickets.
5. The recall in PHL is well under way and the signatures are there. Can someone make sure they have a camera again to snap both John and Grace's face as they receive them? It will be photo worthy to say the least.
Onestep2flt
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flybynite
Veteran
I believe you.
She's has gotten somewhat creepy over the last few years. (15?) She makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.
I think she's a wing nut. But that's just me. Creeps me out.
And boy, she can get nasty too. She's like a toddler who hasn't gotten her way.
She was on the safety comm. and that didn't work out. Then she was the reserve chair in Clt and let go because she couldn't keep her mouth shut about f/a's personal business not to mention she is just this big, huge drama queen about everything.
So she's pissed at Ann for cutting her loose. So what does she do? Go for the LEC Pres slot.
Believe me...this is all personal. Not business.
She's been shot down twice running for LEC Pres. And now she's getting a freebie from the DOL.
I wouldn't vote for her if she was the last f/a standing.
Travelpro72
Veteran
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- 4,964
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What has Anne done for THE MEMBERSHIP in CLT while in office?
