AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[PITbull]

Of course I knew you wouldn't be there. Who do you think responded to your RSVP and said they hoped you would have a nice time on your visit with your granddaughter?? See, I do have a nice side
Hope you can make the party next year. That's the beauty of having hundreds of people in a room. You show up and we won't even have to speak to each other....see you then !!

I know you responded, and thanks. Next year, I'll show up, and make sure I seek you out to say "hey" so you we can't get lost in the crowd and miss each other, god forbid. 😛

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

PIT had a > 48% turnout in their local election in July 2000. I know, I ran for it.

Living in the past is not good for anyone.

My win was bigger than yours?

Who you endorsed for this election did not fare as well in 2011.

Eleven years later and five years after your retirement from LCC things have changed.

Complaining about a losing campaign just looks like sour grapes.

I know you are passionate and find it difficult to go quietly into the night but your time has past.

I think that we have someone who most resembles you and your passion.

Either you are part of the solution or you are part of the problem.

Which side will the candidates that you endorsed choose to be on?

I'm sure when you won you had a clear mandate to do what your membership elected you to do.

TG has a clear margin of victory - just like you eleven years ago.

What kind of sniping did your losing opponents resort to in Y2K?

 

[PITbull]

I am not a problem or a solution in this arena. I just have an opinion.

372 votes for an LECP elect is not a clear mandate. Not when there is over 2,00 in the base.

RC had a landslide for sure, and if ME would have ran for President or Vice he would have taken votes away from both TG and KK. Outcome may have been different. It all depends on who is running, how many folks are runing in the same position and their reputations.

The clear mandate from the f/as that I gleam from all these base elections is that they expect Mike and Carol gone. And if that doesn't get done, the entire f/a group will not be unified or satisfied.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

I am not a problem or a solution in this arena. I just have an opinion.

372 votes for an LECP elect is not a clear mandate. Not when there is over 2,00 in the base.

RC had a landslide for sure, and if ME would have ran for President or Vice he would have taken votes away from both TG and KK. Outcome may have been different. It all depends on who is running, how many folks are runing in the same position and their reputations.

The clear mandate from the f/as that I gleam from all these base elections is that they expect Mike and Carol gone. And if that doesn't get done, the entire f/a group will not be unified or satisfied.

Beating your endorsed candidates by an @ 2 to 1 number and your continued conversation which acknowledges TG's clear victory over who you wanted to win does show what you gleam. A clear mandate to represent PHL - not PIT.

Her mandate is her own.

Your time of dictating who are your personal favorites may not be so meaningful in 2011.

You are retired and in another career. TG is here and now and has your same passion.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda... better luck next time.

Are you experiencing sour grapes because of personal reasons or are you interested in moving forward?

Her mandate did not depend on you.

It was a clear loss for you. Losing gracefully might do your chosen favorites a better chance next time.

You have given your best for AFA but you are retired.

****Do we listen to who we have elected or someone who decided it wasn't worth staying but still wants to have a say?***

Your role as an adviser would be greatly welcome, your role as a bitter ex- employee with an axe to grind who can't let go from the glory days of Y2K is not helpful. Do you want to become a liability, especially for those you support?

Are you part of the solution or are you part of the problem?

Those of you who depended on PitBull to deliver may want to spend more time in PHL and less time living in the past.

What were the circumstances that you resigned from AFA?

 

[safety stud]

Beating your endorsed candidates by an @ 2 to 1 number and your continued conversation which acknowledges TG's clear victory over who you wanted to win does show what you gleam. A clear mandate to represent PHL - not PIT.

Her mandate is her own.

Your time of dictating who are your personal favorites may not be so meaningful in 2011.

You are retired and in another career. TG is here and now and has your same passion.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda... better luck next time.

Are you experiencing sour grapes because of personal reasons or are you interested in moving forward?

Her mandate did not depend on you.

It was a clear loss for you. Losing gracefully might do your chosen favorites a better chance next time.

You have given your best for AFA but you are retired.

****Do we listen to who we have elected or someone who decided it wasn't worth staying but still wants to have a say?***

Your role as an adviser would be greatly welcome, your role as a bitter ex- employee with an axe to grind who can't let go from the glory days of Y2K is not helpful. Do you want to become a liability, especially for those you support?

Are you part of the solution or are you part of the problem?

Those of you who depended on PitBull to deliver may want to spend more time in PHL and less time living in the past.

What were the circumstances that you resigned from AFA?

Pitbull is only stating her opinion... just like yours or mine...
It is just an opinion... so take it as such...
Facts are Facts...
Nothing has changed since 2000 and 2011...
The company is still in financial trouble... and seeking your contract to make up money...
Nothing has changed...
If you can't see that you have blinders on..
The difference, PitBull stood up to the company...
where many other haven't or are afraid to...
If you ask me, You might be part of the problem...
Open your ears and your mind, and you just might learn something from the past...

Just my opinion...

 

[SparrowHawk]

Pitbull is only stating her opinion... just like yours or mine...
It is just an opinion... so take it as such...
Facts are Facts...
Nothing has changed since 2000 and 2011...
The company is still in financial trouble... and seeking your contract to make up money...
Nothing has changed...
If you can't see that you have blinders on..
The difference, PitBull stood up to the company...
where many other haven't or are afraid to...
If you ask me, You might be part of the problem...
Open your ears and your mind, and you just might learn something from the past...

Just my opinion...

What's that saying? "Those who ignore the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them" In the time frame from 2000 until the merger announcement there are a great many lessons to be learned and it is the wise leader who looks back in order to move forward. Did Pitbull do everything right? I don't think so and there are lessons to be taken from what she did right and what she did that was not so right.

I will tell you point blank from first hand knowledge that US Airways management was afraid she would cause the company to liquidate. I will also tell you with more first hand knowledge that a certain individual "Set Up" a certain union leader from PIT that more or less forced her to resign. US Airways did everything within their power to try to discredit Ms Xidas. When you criticize her you may want to take a look at the historical context before burning her at the stake.

Teddy could be a tremendous asset for the new folks to tap into. Do they have to take every shred of advice? NOPE, however having someone who did battle under adverse conditions serving as "Wise Counsel" could go a long way towards meaningful improvements.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

... a certain individual "Set Up" a certain union leader from PIT that more or less forced her to resign.

So what was the "setup" that forced PitBull to resign?

Was it something that might lead PitBull to hold a grudge?

Knowledge, wisdom, perseverance, fear are all great traits.

When TG won over PitBull's personal choices by a convincing margin but still continues to gripe I begin to understand that it's just settling scores.

Wise advice is great but you can't run PHL's union part time from your desk in PIT.

Oh yeah, something has changed from eleven years ago - the unthinkable happened - PIT closed. Some quit some stayed.

What was the "setup" from a first hand point of view?

 

[SparrowHawk]

So what was the "setup" that forced PitBull to resign?

Was it something that might lead PitBull to hold a grudge?

Knowledge, wisdom, perseverance, fear are all great traits.

When TG won over PitBull's personal choices by a convincing margin but still continues to gripe I begin to understand that it's just settling scores.

Wise advice is great but you can't run PHL's union part time from your desk in PIT.

Oh yeah, something has changed from eleven years ago - the unthinkable happened - PIT closed. Some quit some stayed.

What was the "setup" from a first hand point of view?

Hold a Grudge? You'd have to ask her. I saw and heard what I did and frankly it's not the place of a customer to educate someone on the inner working of their union. You know or should know and if you don't the that speaks more about you then it does anyone else.

She can gripe, It's a free country. I've no issue with TG, I've met her as well. Personally I have more confidence in someone else. Also met MG and exchanged e-mail with MF and on the later he's about as dumb as a bag of hammers.

If certain parties within US felt she might cause the company to liquidate then who do you think was involved in the set up?

I have vivid recall of the whole incident and since there were two people in the room, me and Pitbull, you'll have to hear it from her. I'm not in the AFA nor am I an employee of US so my lips are forever sealed as to the specifics.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

I'm not in the AFA nor am I an employee of US so my lips are forever sealed as to the specifics.

So the "set up" is something that can't be shared?

That the resignation of the most prominent union official at the time is something you find yourself unwilling to discuss.

Can I chalk this up to not wanting to tarnish a capable and dedicated past union official's legacy?

I think I will.

If you want to sweep it under the rug - so be it.

I'll ask again, why did PitBull resign?

 

[SparrowHawk]

So the "set up" is something that can't be shared?

That the resignation of the most prominent union official at the time is something you find yourself unwilling to discuss.

Can I chalk this up to not wanting to tarnish a capable and dedicated past union official's legacy?

I think I will.

If you want to sweep it under the rug - so be it.

I'll ask again, why did PitBull resign?

Her exact words as I recall were, "I have to for the good of the union". I urged her not to but here mind was made up. Based on some of the crap that's gone on since, she is a Girl Scout by comparison.

I'm not speaking beyond the abov except to say that US got what it wanted, her out of the way.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Her exact words as I recall were, "I have to for the good of the union". I urged her not to but here mind was made up. Based on some of the crap that's gone on since, she is a Girl Scout by comparison.

I'm not speaking beyond the abov except to say that US got what it wanted, her out of the way.

So what is the big secret? Is it martyrdom or was it something else.

You dance around this but what was the reason PitBull resigned?

 

[SparrowHawk]

So what is the big secret? Is it martyrdom or was it something else.

You dance around this but what was the reason PitBull resigned?

I know you may find this difficult to fathom, I am NOT betraying a trust. I saw what I saw and heard what I heard and unless and until I get the go ahead, I will take the information to my grave. I realize that this loyalty or integrity is in short supply in our society but for me I know no other way to be. She got a raw deal and I think she deserves some props for putting the good of her members ahead of her ego. I have a great deal of respect for her and nothing will change that.

Was she the perfect leader? no one is. Bill Clinton had his challenges with Ms Lewinski and he was a pretty good POTUS. Teddy saved you guys bacon and did all she could and there is never disgrace in honest effort. Teddy Xidas was "In The Arena", are you?

THE MAN IN THE ARENA​

Excerpt from the speech "Citizenship In A Republic", delivered at the Sorbonne, in Paris, France on 23 April, 1910 -

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

OR as I suspect are you the Critic who points out how the strong man struggles. Teddy was the embodiment of the person Teddy Roosevelt spoke of. Who among the current crop is ready to stand in the Arena?

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

... you the Critic who points out how the strong man struggles

And PitbBll is "the Critic" of TG's convincing victory in PHL.

Pitbull was a great and competent leader who is no longer here.

I will listen to someone who is here and now, not gone and out of the company, union, industry.
PitBull can not, by definition, "stand in the arena". History is not to be forgotten but some may try to maintain their place a bit longer than they should. If you have a legacy why mess with it? Teddy Roosevelt is also gone.

Why did PitBull leave anyway?

For the good of the union? Why was it for the good of the union?

You don't speak to whether PitBull holds a grudge but I think she does.

 

[SparrowHawk]

And PitbBll is "the Critic" of TG's convincing victory in PHL.

Pitbull was a great and competent leader who is no longer here.

I will listen to someone who is here and now, not gone and out of the company, union, industry.
PitBull can not, by definition, "stand in the arena". History is not to be forgotten but some may try to maintain their place a bit longer than they should. If you have a legacy why mess with it? Teddy Roosevelt is also gone.

Why did PitBull leave anyway?

For the good of the union? Why was it for the good of the union?

You don't speak to whether PitBull holds a grudge but I think she does.

And I'm not speaking and I'm not debating the relative merits of TG vs TX. So post to your hearts content, ask away, I'm Done.

 

[PITbull]

So what was the "setup" that forced PitBull to resign?

Was it something that might lead PitBull to hold a grudge?

Knowledge, wisdom, perseverance, fear are all great traits.

When TG won over PitBull's personal choices by a convincing margin but still continues to gripe I begin to understand that it's just settling scores.

Wise advice is great but you can't run PHL's union part time from your desk in PIT.

Oh yeah, something has changed from eleven years ago - the unthinkable happened - PIT closed. Some quit some stayed.

What was the "setup" from a first hand point of view?

Setup??? Pray tell, what do you speak of?

TG and I have made amends years ago. The rest is none of your damn business quite frankly, and surely I can't express my personal issues on a message board as no one would find that of interest anymore, as you said. And, I can't remember the personal nuances of who did what when etc.. as all those internals go on in the political arena of AFA all the time, just different players on their own power trip. I have absolutely no grudge with anyone; no agenda, no one has that power over me that I would exert that kind of energy. I just wrote a preference of who I thought would be the better choice for pHL as I worked with them. You may find that void of any weight, read it, and lump it.
I really don't care. I can predict the outcome knowing the players at the table. That's what experience offers. I hope I can be proven wrong for the sake of the f/as who have come such a long way to make a change in their working lives.

On the other hand, if you have some personal issues you would like to post on this board for dialogue about your personal life...

Be my guest, Charlie Brown. If anyone finds that of interest they may just indulge you. 😛