IAM Fleet Service topic

[freedom]

Getting a better contract should hinge on Traditonal Negotiations... not a Transition Agreement.

{so on and so forth }


Don't let 'em rape you!!! Vote NO.

I somewhat disagree with you bag chucker

1st you make the point about traditional talk , well traditionally talks take a very long time do they not ? What’s the average for these talks , at least what two years right ? How long have we been at this for now , so we’re going to wait till 2010 to really start making some headway ? A big no thanks over here .


I agree with your second point , it’s not yet possible to say how costly this will be to our brothers on the east who get cut with the 60 day rule .

I disagree that our contract has effective scope protection , I think there’s very little in either contract that will stop the slaughter , as far as the east contract goes , with the new TA their scope actually improves .. But that’s not really a big issue for us .


As for there being good reasons and bad reasons , I see more good than bad … your in a very bad position , so I can see how you notice the bad . Overall and in general , considering the state of the world today I think it’s better to go the safer route than the riskier one .

 

[P. REZ]

Freedom,

I disagree that our contract has effective scope protection , I think there’s very little in either contract that will stop the slaughter , as far as the east contract goes , with the new TA their scope actually improves .. But that’s not really a big issue for us .

Our scope does protect jobs, however it would only delay the inevitable outsourcing machine that will be created by UA/US merger.

Respectfully,

P. REZ

 

[bagchucker]

Points noted, Freedom.

Vote yes, that's fine.

I am voting no, that's fine.

We will let the cards fall where they may. I have nearly 12 years in the industry and have worked at 5 different airports in that time. I can pick up and move again, no problem. When the vote is said and done and the merger mania pans out, all this speculation will follow suit, too. I will roll, too. As long as I am offered an airport to relocate to, I will go. It is getting a pink slip that has NO Return on it that bugs me the most..... As stated in an earlier post, if it flies, I'll chuck bags on it, just give me that option.... Not changing my stance, just going with what looks ineveitable... and I'd like to stay where I am currently working for as long as possible.....

 

[freedom]

I was furloughed in '92 and could have stayed in CLT part time but chose to move elsewhere where I would not have to bump anyone and allowed someone junior to me to remain in CLT. I took furlough again in '03 and again could have kept part time but chose to take furlough to allow someone else junior to me to keep his job.
My own dead do bother me and I had the balls to vote NO to a bad contract then and I do the same now. I will take a shot for my brothers, even the ones I do not know.
This game is won by knowing which piece to move. Banzai Chess cannot be played here. I am voting NO for a raise because I know that while I am safe and am high enough on the seniority scale now, it comes at to high of a cost. I am voting NO because I don't want YOU to live through the very painful roller coaster ride my 20+ years have seen.

First I want to say rat tales ,that I respect the choices you and your brother made .


However ….. I feel that the situation we are faced with today is different than it was in the past ,unions in general are weaker , and when your current brothers get furloughed today , they won’t be coming back like you did …

Things are so tight in this industry that we can’t even get the people from the last round of furloughs back in , and soon we may add more names to the rolls …



As to the roller coaster … well we’ve had it very easy here in PHX in the time I’ve been employed here .. No major shake ups , nothing to radically change our way of life …

I’m well aware of the possibilities of what could happen with any merger … but it is my belief that no matter how badly I may not want us to merge or my own life to change , I cannot stop what’s going to happen .. Furthermore I don’t believe that there are any effective provisions in either contract to save the jobs of those who will go to the chopping block .

My advocating of this transitional agreement has little to do with the merger ,From where I stand it’s a fair deal for the world we live in today . That’s why I’m voting for it , it’s a safe choice in hard times and it makes sense to me .

We must not be afraid of the darkness , we must walk boldly into it with heads held high

 

[rat tales]

We must not be afraid of the darkness , we must walk boldly into it with heads held high

Like I told you,

Ive been through this mine field. You walk right ahead in the dark with that head held high. It is easier to see those pretty mines going off from the back.
No one is safe in these mergers and the word is UNION you sound like you like flying solo so I ask you not to refer to us as brothers and sisters if the good of the whole is not your concern.

 

[perserverance]

Tim, exactly when and by whom was Randy allegedly told these things. I have not heard that at all. I think your team here in philly is so very busy trying to impress you that some things get seriously fabricated. I would recheck all of the info you are getting to see if in fact it is correct. i heard at the local the other day they had less than 40 people show up to voice any displeasures. I believe these numbers to be correct because i spoke to someone who went to the morning meeting and was told less than 10 people showed up. An afternoon attendee told me there was about 25-30 at that one.

''proud2bphilly'' , I don't know who your sources are but in my PHL the feeling is a NO vote ''big
time''. On May 1st about 7 people made thier way down the hall to basically vent on PF and ask
some questions. First of which was about the CIC to which PF reitterated it was really of no value.
People wanted to know why AH wants it so badly if it indeeds has no value......no answer. People
also wanted to know his monthly salary and any raise he would see and he didn't want to speak
on that. The afternoon meeting had about 17 people and same Q and A.

People like myself were asked not to show up just to vent. There were alot of people who wanted
to go but only to scream and that is not the route we need to take. The meeting on the 6th will be
your sign of interest. This is the meeting most people will get thier questions answered. ''p2bp'' you
were a JH supporter if I remember correctly.

''cat chaser'' welcome to the board, I'm guessing your out of LAS and if so your input is helpful.
Thanks, and welcome once again. I'm based out of PHL.

Thanks

**o'man I know your on vacation so I took the top spot on this page if thats' OK.

 

[rat tales]

My advocating of this transitional agreement has little to do with the merger ,From where I stand it’s a fair deal for the world we live in today . That’s why I’m voting for it , it’s a safe choice in hard times and it makes sense to me .

Those shiny pennys are taking your attention again. This T/A has everything to do with a merger and you don't see it. Getting better language in times of a merger is more important than a raise. Those without jobs cannot be around to enjoy them. If you like the east pay scale now, why don't we keep it there and focus on trading the raise on protective language. I'm voting NO because I want to push the company to settle with us so that they can merge. If they don't want this merger THEY will let it go by. If they want this deal, they will talk. DoUgIe has his parachute on and will have a big payday with his CIC language. Those are several million reasons he will come back!

 

[freedom]

you sound a lot like Tim did a few weeks ago , going on about how there would be no merger without this TA going through , but now he knows better … this company and united will merge with or without us ..

As for the COC that perseverance talks about , WOW …. I wonder who told you guys about it , I mean who explained it to you , a lot of you still can’t stop worshiping it … try to keep in mind that you’ve already lost it once , a second time would be more painful than the first .


You mention rat tales that I’m only seeing the shinny pennies , well I think your missing that large knife in your hand with the blood dripping off of it … there’s going to be a lot of backstabbing over in the east as you claw over your junior guys to get increased wages , and I tell ya … given the choice between rolling into your contract and keeping ours , I’ll skip your 60 day rule ..


Hey but don’t feel bad rat tales , I’m willing to sell our field stations out , so I guess that makes us even!


P.S if you think there’s enough time to get better language I HIGHLY doubt it , and even then , we’d have to vote on it , and you all know how contentious that is lol! If we shoot this one down , I see no reason we won’t shoot that one too …

P.P.S.S if we were the “KEY†to the merger , then I think this contract would be a little better don’t you ?


OH one more thing , the scope for your field stations is improved with this TA is it not , from 69 flights necessary not to get cut to now 14 ? But I guess YOUR field stations don’t matter to you either …

 

[urbff]

My advocating of this transitional agreement has little to do with the merger ,From where I stand it’s a fair deal for the world we live in today . That’s why I’m voting for it , it’s a safe choice in hard times and it makes sense to me .

We must not be afraid of the darkness , we must walk boldly into it with heads held high

Freedom Darlin' you need a little back up here, don't ya? Don't you worry, I'm here for you. You are 100% right in everything you're saying. These guys are just a bunch of bullies with their own political agenda. Why these boys aren't looking out for our brothers and sisters! They are just flexing those bulging muscles of theirs in hope of getting a free ride on the backs of our west cities that will surely get outsoured if this TA is voted down. Honey, we have to stand up for what is right, and don't you let those bad guys get you down. I'm here for you and all of our brothers and sisters, east and west. Baby, you know that there is good for both sides. We both know the company said they will put us into the east contract if this is voted down. There is nothing to prevent that. These boys will type in big bold letters and insist that the company can't do that. Well I'd like to see how they think this can be avoided. They have no proof. They have nothing at all. They have tried and I have shown them where they were wrong. I don't even want to hear the bylaws argument again. The bylaws do not cover this. They will think that just by being vile and typing in those great big letters will make people believe them. Well Honey, we're no fools, are we? I'm hear to tell you, the company can, and they will force us into the icky east contract, with it's nasty outsourcing and that awful 60 day rule! What are there, 10 of these big, bad, boys trying to fool us? I'm not afraid of one of them! They may be big buff guys, but they just don't have any proof, just a bunch of hot air.

Maybe, these boys just don't have any common sense. Now Honey, we sure can't blame them for that! Freedom I'm sure you'll agree with me that it's takes just a bit of it, to be able to read this TA and figure out that we save jobs by voting yes. As an extra bonus we get some more money too! That 60 day rule goes away! Those boys on furlough get a chance to come back with seniority and money. I can't wait to welcome them back! Sure wish you boys could vote, cause I know you're on our side! I love that double time we get too. I really think they will enjoy that extra vacation time they'll be getting!

Sugar, I know there are a lot of Yes votes out there, despite what these guys want people to think. We have a great group of rampers who can think for themselves and can see the value of this. IAM did a great job with the economy and the state of the airline industry working against them.

Now get busy boys, I know you can't wait to rip this apart. Just know that I still love all you big lugs! Someday we are going to look back at this laugh, and wonder how we could have ever thought of each other as east and west, cause we will be one big happy family. You'll all be HP in my heart! Timmy, are you gearing up? Still looking forward to our shopping trip!

 

[orioleman]

freedom,
"but too many have let your greed rule you , greed isn’t always bad , but when you let it blind you to reality it then becomes so …."


Now look who's talking about GREED. Last I looked you were the one starving trying to suck juice out of a cactus Your the one

wanting the BIG RAISE.. we on the east and including some west (mike and BF) included are fighting for job protections

something you don't seem to worried about. Just wait junior your day is coming real soon. I also see your still ranting about

the 60 day rule that by the 3 words " Prior to OEI " render it USELESS ...... I guess you can't get that through your

freedom head. And I thought you were an expert on reading contracts , with all the opinions and facts that you like to spew.

and as far as you trying to spin my words. Better learn to read post correctly . You have become a real joke around here .

and for the 100 th time . the O-man is a VERY SOLID NO..

 

[orioleman]

perv,
"People
also wanted to know his monthly salary and any raise he would see and he didn't want to speak
on that. "

district by-laws

"ARTICLE IX - DUTIES OF OFFICERS"

"Section 2. (a) The Assistant General Chairman shall attend all meetings of the Executive Board. They shall assist the President/Directing General Chairman in all functions and shall be responsible for organizing employees covered by District Lodge No. 141, and shall be responsible to the President/Directing General Chairman.
(B) For the faithful performance of their duties, each Assistant General Chairman shall receive the following monthly salary rate, effective 01-01-06:
First six (6) months' service $7,988.24
Second six (6) months' service $8,066.27
Thereafter $8,145.58
The above salaries shall be increased each January 1st by a percentage equal to the percentage increase in weighted average hourly earnings on a union-wide basis. In addition, a per diem while away from his designated headquarters in the regular performance of his duties."

perv maybe that is why he didn't want to talk about. Hard to get people to support a buck an hour raise or in some case yr 1-9 .20 cents
an hour when he is looking at about a 11,000.00 raise for your YES vote. :down: :down:

the reason I said 1.00 dollar is OUR dues will be double to about 80.00 a month . so there goes about .50 cents an hour out of your new
raise. WTF

 

[necigrad]

This is an easy enough post , so i'll start with you first ....


.. no one in the TWU CBA wil be affected ? and most of the cutting is over and done with for east side ? i suppose the fact that united exited BK awhile ago means that their done cutting as well , and this whole merger to DOWNSIZE , will just involve planes and not people ....

wow PLEASEEE send me some of that ... whatever you on , i WANT it ... where did you buy it ? did you take it all at once ?


oh i should have been more specific , as for fighting , i should have said that i'm done fighting the COMPANY ... i'm not above fighting my own union , in fact as many of YOU have shown , it's the "right" thing to do ....

Freedom, I was referring to the 60 day rule, not overall. As it stands now the 60 day rule won't affect one West worker unless and until we are on the East contract, or some form thereof. The 60 day rule is not in the West contract. In addition to that, per the West contract an employee cannot be outsourced. The only way to get rid of a station is to close it. That's NOT goign to happen.

 

[Save708AW]

I have to add to all of this anarchy. I will tell you what, I can't wait for this to all be over. So close now. Either way, I see history repeating itself if we merge with UA. This whole quarrel will start again and we will be back to square one with another T/A being thrown at us. Difference being, it will simply be US and UA. Thank god for that.

No offense, but some of your guys drive me crazy on your viewpoints. But it reminds me of that sports player that you have hated on the other team for beating you and being so difficult. You can hate em with a passion but when your team aquires that guy, wow! kick A$$, I love having that guy with MY team. In the next years to come, I think we will all feel that way. And by the time UA comes rolling along, "WE" will be the majority! We, US, combined, will call the shots.

I am a yes vote and I ask for each of you to make up your own mind. For me, they aren't offering me a steak, but I will take a pork chop over the ramen noodles I have now.

And by the way, America West employees ARE the lowest paid airline employees in the industry so don't be so surprised that some out here jump at the money. When we are talking multiples of dollars an hour, it is the difference between just a job and a living.

That's not the only reason I am voting for it, but for most out here, it is.

 

[robbedagain]

First of all READ THE TA robbed , the SIXTY day rule is REMOVED ... GONE , FINSIHED , OUT OF THE WAY ....

Now you sir will be a victem of all of this , because our removing the sixty day rule will do NOTHING to help you and the small miniority of those who were affected by the sixity day rule and haven't yet moved on ....

the IMPORANT thing is that we REMOVE the sixty day rule so that NO ONE ELSE falls to it as you and MIKE have ...

I want EVERY east sider to pay attention to people like Robbed and MIKE , they either are or used to be guys affected by the 60 day rule ..SEE how it screwed up their lives , mike is as bitter as they come , and i dont blame him ... but also remember my brothers and sisters , when we talked about the TA , no one cared nor remembered these people , so it's imporant that you don't BECOME one of them ...

By voting yes you will eliminate the 60 day rule from the TA... if we merge with united their nightmare will not become yours .

First of all Freedom, I havce read that POS garbage. IT clearly states once it is ratified the 60 day rule is ELIMINATED for ANY FURLOUGHS that occur after that. Second of all, we on the EAST have been enduring that since the day it went into effect Now if you want to dispute that just ask some of the other folks who are affected by that stupid rule now. And if that new POS garbage gets voted in, you west folks will endure it too

 

[orioleman]

I am a yes vote and I ask for each of you to make up your own mind. For me, they aren't offering me a steak, but I will take a pork chop over the ramen noodles I have now.

And by the way, America West employees ARE the lowest paid airline employees in the industry so don't be so surprised that some out here jump at the money. When we are talking multiples of dollars an hour, it is the difference between just a job and a living.

That's not the only reason I am voting for it, but for most out here, it is.

Save700aw
that is exactly why the company and Randy are throwing this pork chop at you because they know your hungry and you'll bite
typical Randy NEG. because the difference between a pork chop and a steak is Randy's bonus.

second. would love to hear the other reasons for your YES vote . cause the money thing will soon disappear when you start paying

insurance premiums and your dues doubles in 09 . but I respect your honesty but would hope you have other valid reasons to vote yes

other than the carrot that will be already half eaten , that there throwing at yea.