IAM Fleet Service topic

[freedom]

Nobody is talking about losing the CIC or grieving it. Separate the issues. What we are talking about is its validity and credibility that hemenway sees but you can't. Leverage. It gives leverage, especially since United is playing a big game. This isn't going to be some little regional airline merger. If fleet service folds for 10 years, half of you aren't going to be around. It would be shameful to give up merger protections and scope protections with the knowledge of a merger. MArketwatch said, "United and US AIRWAYS should announce this in 10 days." I'm no prophet but I told you that it was going to be announced the 3rd week of May, about 2 months ago because it has already been a 'done deal'.

At any rate, your opinion is just as valid as mine regarding which stations will be shut down or downsized with this merger. IMO, PHX will get exactly what this contract provides. Certainly I hope Im wrong and everything will be sunny and 70 as I would take no pleasure in seeing the west shut down.

District Negotiator Speaks Out Against this Contract


regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

You know what’s FUNNY , if this COC was so important , then don’t you all think ,oh maybe the company would have offered more ?


Gee , if I was at CHQ and I wanted to get rid of the COC I think I’d have come up with a TA that was better than the TA offered BEFORE you lost the change of control ….


If my objective was to get rid of the change in control to make a merger go through with united airlines , I would know that I have as much leeway as whatever is in the united contract …. Now I don’t know the united contract , but I think it’s safe to assume that we aren’t close to it …


Are any of you following my train of thought here? This company once again doesn’t place any great value on the COC , it is you , the baggage handlers who are over inflating this ,and it is you who will pay for that mistake with shattered dreams and hopes .

p.s you talk about that scope tim , please explain to all of us how your scope will save east workers from the 60 day rule , i'm sure they would like to hear about the scope that will save them , so please , explain .

 

[roabilly]

Ok, Roabilly, I remember that free drink post although it is buried now. What was it BBQ and free drinks? I'm always open to free drinks as I can travel for free also. A bunch of us should get together in June for the celebration of eliminating The Boss.

District Negotiator Speaks out against the contract

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

Yer right my brother...

Till me 'n tha boy's run outta money !

See yahh in June !

 

[Save708AW]

Ok folks,

I have a question that hasn't been answered or asked and I am curious about. I am looking for more facts and less opinions on this one, so please help me out. Tim, this one may be right up your ally.

If this T/A is voted no, and the West falls under the East contract, can the company set an elongated schedule to pay us at the East rate?

Example: No vote is ratified. Company decides to place the West under the East contract. Upon filing, do we immediately receive the same pay rates, benefits, vacation, ect. Or, can they stagger the payments like they proposed to do on the T/A?

If I had 3 weeks vacation under west but under East, I only qualify for two, will my third week I bid for this year, be canceled? Can it be?

Will our health benefits payments increase at the same rate that we receive our East wages (if staggered) or will we get slammed with all of the co-pay increase right away, while waiting 6 mos for the rest of the wage increase?

I am hoping for the best but I wish to prepare for the worst. I am not implying a "no" vote to be the worst thing, but this company has a way of making things more difficult than they should be.

If someone is going to answer me with, "west will never fall under east, don't worry about it", please don't bother responding. I am looking for an answer or information that will be helpful for a possible scenario. Key word: possible

Anyone with some info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[roabilly]

In any future merger with any airline , there’s only one man talented enough to lead the new entity to profitability , and that man is DOUG PARKER ….. He and his hand picked team leave me astounded … I know talent when I see it , and he’s got it …

Two thumbs up for DP and his crew ….. WAY UP!

Mr. Freedom,I saw this post from another thread and thought it was quite comical!!!Now we know why your so pro this POS T/A...your one of DP's boys....

Hear yahh BRO...

More tha reason tahh keep profit sharin' !

 

[freedom]

crown or Jack for me boys

CHQ in PHX in a US/UA merger LOLOLOLOL between stuff like that and DP is my guy post how can anyone take this dude seriously

Perhaps you misunderstood what I wrote , I mentioned to mike that our CHQ is located here in PHX …

What I’m saying there is that our corporate headquarters is only located a few miles from where a lot of us work , live, and play …. Many of us know people inside of corporate , do you see what I’m getting at ?

I never said that the combined operation would be IN phx …

Also you can rag on me for liking the job performance of Doug parker all you like , but it’s my belief that we all have our jobs because of this combined company .

You see , …..what YOU want is a CEO who will bend over for every single union on the property , so that we will have the best wages in the entire history of aviation …. And then shortly after that we will have to close our doors and shut down .. you lack the ability to separate yourself from your situation and look at things from an outside perspective .

Sometimes it’s important to be able to look at things from other perspectives so that you can better understand them .


I’m just as frustrated as you are , MORE so because we here in the west live in greater poverty , but I can still detach myself and critically analyze the situation . He does a good job .

But as i stated , i'm in the minority at this company in my view and i understand that .

 

[Tim Nelson]

I'm in....All we need to do is name the place and time. Cuervo good Tim?

Joe, I'm not much of a drinker, so I don't have any idea what Cuervo is but as long as I'm not driving, it sounds good. All I know is back in college I thought tequilla sucked.

District 141 Negotiator speaks out against this contract

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[freedom]

''rock'' the current AGC's a

{so on and so forth }

this past fall, he said if we had any b@lls we would have a good TA
already. All the ifs', ands' and buts' are not answers.

I'm a NO VOTE and I know of many others who feel the same.

bob

wow , you know , i think he was being truthfull with you folks .. i don't know any of you , and i wasn't there ... but can any of you tell me what you did to help get a better TA, other than sitting on your asses?

Who do you think is going to bring you a better TA ? Santa clause? HO HO HO ....

You know i don't remember any protest video's coming out of PHL in the several years we had to host talks ... hmm i don't recall any work actions that made the news either 😛h34r: ... and you know it's funny , i didn't see any of you down here in PHX when we protested , numerous times i might add ...

i think all of the fight has gone out of you , you only have the courage to fight your own union who can't fire you ... that's it , where's your backbone for fighting this company ? did you leave it at home each and everyday you came into work ...

I don't have to worry about a strike because there will never be one ... :down:

 

[Jester]

By SUSAN CAREY- (Wall Street Journal)
May 4, 2008 2:15 p.m.[/b]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Earlier Monday, The Wall Street Journal reported that United and U.S. Airways had targeted about $1.5 billion in cost savings in the event of a merger
All this points to the COC having undeniable value...........

There appears to be a certain "disconnect" in some people's thinking. There is VALUE, but not to you, my bag chucking cohort. Unless you have a major stock position within the company, you are not likely to see much benefit, if any, of that $1.5 billion in savings outside that you might keep your job longer.

Back to "disconnect"... didn't you mention a few weeks ago about your 33 years seniority and you were going to bump-and-flush people throughout the West stations if this TA was accepted, only to mention a few days ago that you have only a few years as a fairly recent hire in SAN? People know and respect you for your lengthy service in SAN too? Tell LF that I give him my best.

If you are a fairly new hire as you just recently proclaimed, then you should be all over this contract as a big "yes" vote. Otherwise you can wait for 4 or more years on the several thousands of dollars extra every year that you could have been making instead of holding-out for an extra couple thousand dollars offered 4 years later. You aren't getting retro then or now, so put that dream to bed. Simple math... think about it.

So Returns Jester.

 

[cltrat]

Freedom you just answered one of your questions they only offered what they did for CIC because they knew they you guys there would grasp at any straw thrown and they hope some us would fall for it too.
the AG today said CIC was important to the company but danced around how important

As far as a CEO one like the one at CO that treats their workers with respect would be nice not one that views us as a nessacery evil to be treated like S**t

 

[freedom]

Freedom you just answered one of your questions they only offered what they did for CIC because they knew they you guys there would grasp at any straw thrown and they hope some us would fall for it too.
the AG today said CIC was important to the company but danced around how important

As far as a CEO one like the one at CO that treats their workers with respect would be nice not one that views us as a nessacery evil to be treated like S**t

What’s interesting with your position CLTrat is that it’s a no lose position .

There’s absolutely NO logic I can use to explain to you that the COC has no value because you don’t want to understand it .

If I tell you that it’s worthless because the company offered so little , you come back and tell me that they were using “psychology “ on us to try and “steal†it from us …

If I say to you another time it’s worth almost nothing ,you’ll then question me and claim “Well why are they taking it out of the TA , it must be very valuable to them “

You’ve abandoned reason completely in the purist of your goal …

That’s what I was talking about when I mentioned perspective , you’ve lost it .

 

[roabilly]

Joe, I'm not much of a drinker, so I don't have any idea what Cuervo is but as long as I'm not driving, it sounds good. All I know is back in college I thought tequilla sucked.

District 141 Negotiator speaks out against this contract

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

Tim…

Yer… one of us…

Ahh… Southerner… by proxy…You are remembered, and respected here in CLT!

No matter tha outcome of this Tentative Vote…We, still have unfinished business for tha June Election.

Delaney…Redeye…’n tha rest of tha boy’s are poised tah take tha reigns!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Ok folks,

I have a question that hasn't been answered or asked and I am curious about. I am looking for more facts and less opinions on this one, so please help me out. Tim, this one may be right up your ally.

If this T/A is voted no, and the West falls under the East contract, can the company set an elongated schedule to pay us at the East rate?

Example: No vote is ratified. Company decides to place the West under the East contract. Upon filing, do we immediately receive the same pay rates, benefits, vacation, ect. Or, can they stagger the payments like they proposed to do on the T/A?

If I had 3 weeks vacation under west but under East, I only qualify for two, will my third week I bid for this year, be canceled? Can it be?

Will our health benefits payments increase at the same rate that we receive our East wages (if staggered) or will we get slammed with all of the co-pay increase right away, while waiting 6 mos for the rest of the wage increase?

I am hoping for the best but I wish to prepare for the worst. I am not implying a "no" vote to be the worst thing, but this company has a way of making things more difficult than they should be.

If someone is going to answer me with, "west will never fall under east, don't worry about it", please don't bother responding. I am looking for an answer or information that will be helpful for a possible scenario. Key word: possible

Anyone with some info would be greatly appreciated.

The company doesn't have the right under law to move you into the east contract. Even Canale will agree to this. You have a collective bargaining agreement that can't change unless the company serves notice that it wants to 'ammend' the contract. Your collective bargaining agreement is distinctly different than the east's.

We already know that further negotiations is 100% what would happen with a rejection. The only dispute we have had the last few weeks is over the time frame. I believe it's cheaper for the company to have hemenway come back to the table within 30 days of the rejection, however, others think the company would risk traditional bargaining and wait till next year. The company certainly has the option if it wants transition or traditional. But in no case will the west be thrown in the east contract without negotiations, even Canale made that clear in LAS the other day.

I happen to believe negotiations will commence 30 days after a rejection due to the fact that the company would want a transition agreement between east and west [cheaper than transitioning US to UA]. In any case, I think the company would rather do a transition over traditional bargaining, in which case bargaining would be sooner as opposed to later. The company has the option of transitonal but will definately be forced to traditional in October of next year. I would prefer traditional and going for an industry best contract, but I think the majority of the masses would jump on a transition that had $20 and more vacation, etc.

District 141 Negotiator Speaks "Against" This contract

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[JoeDirt]

Joe, I'm not much of a drinker, so I don't have any idea what Cuervo is but as long as I'm not driving, it sounds good. All I know is back in college I thought tequilla sucked.

District 141 Negotiator speaks out against this contract

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

You gotta have the good tequila. Jose Cuervo 1800...100% pure agave tequila.

Whisperjet did you make the meeting today? Anybody else make it? What are your thoughts?

 

[freedom]

The company doesn't have the right under

{so on and so forth}

. I would prefer traditional and going for an industry best contract, but I think the majority of the masses would jump on a transition that had $20 and more vacation, etc.

District 141 Negotiator Speaks "Against" This contract

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

aHHH i see you've moved on to the next gimic! COC too weak , use fears of union colliusion , that not working ? bring out DANGERS OF MERGER , that backfiring on you ? move on to "transition everyone to UA contract " hmm i'm gonna have to think on your new edge for an hour or so .. oh wait i don't have too! your the ones locked into your contract until DEC 31st 2009 !!! woops , poor you!! also , i just don't think it will be simple to transition to the UA contract ... i mean , why would the EAST want to settle for the UA contract when they can have SOOO much more , don't settle for the UA contract brothers! not when we have section 6 on our side ... so on and so forth running in cirles until the end of time ..

 

[cltrat]

Freedom first of all CIC is not the center piece if why I am a NO vote just one reason

as far my perspective I admit I don't know what CIC in the up coming merger will be worth just that the company thinks it is worth something you on the otherHand try to pass yourself off as a expert in labor law which of course you are not

why can you not see even if the company does not comeback we will be better off standing with UA in 09 rather than working in a poorer deal then theirs for years to come?