Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

 
http://vimeo.com/72112364#at=8
 
You'll have to settle for these guys.

 
 
LOL. Fair enough Jake, and you obviously, already know I was merely joking with you about such. 🙂

 

[EastUS1]

RR: "One no vote..."
 
Indeed RR. Standard cliches come to mind. = "It is what it is", and there's nothing I can presently see to do to improve the situation, at least until a contract's negotiated within the new American.

 

[traderjake]

[SIZE=14pt]He seems to despise those that have actually run or held office...[/SIZE]
 

 
No, only what you've done.
 
Reneging on a mutually agreed upon arbitration process so you could try to put a Reserve F/O ahead of a Captain on the same airplane.
 
You can try to pretend that the last 5 pilot seniortity arbitrations mean nothing but your just making a fool of yourself. 
 
Longevity is not seniority. 

 

[Phoenix]

"and the recall ensured a vote on the MOU" is pure projection on your part, and if what you claim is true, in any case evades the very reasonable thought that perhaps more could've well been had without your little sabotage efforts. I've never known of CM doing anything more than enthusiastically groveling and licking the floor for any unswept crumbs before, so why's this such a great "victory", even if it went as you say? No matter now, I suppose. Umm..so I must now assume I'll not receive an invitation to the wedding then? 🙂

CM jumps in front of every mob migration and then thinks he is a leader, and some folks actually give him credit.

 

[EastUS1]

 
..... so you could try to put a Reserve F/O ahead of a Captain on the same airplane.
 

 
 
Ummm....Wouldn't that be the exact effect to be had from putting the nic into play now? 😉

 

[Reed Richards]

 
 
Ummm....Wouldn't that be the exact effect to be had from putting the nic into play now? 😉

[SIZE=10.5pt]He brings that argument up every time, it is a red herring. We all know that the job of fences and restrictions is to prevent that scenario. Our 17 year guy had 17 years unbroken service, his DOH was in fact his longevity, just as the new hire at AWA had no furlough. He despises us for fighting the award, and thus denying him a pay raise, yet sits smugly enjoying the benefits of what his own father and Boeing Boy allowed to happen to the Empire guys. All his arguments are muddied by his own silence at what PI did. Just like Boeing Boy and this father, he has never presented so much as a resolution, much less run for office with the intent of repairing that wrong. And of course he will use the excuse it was too late. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]As to a new list mirroring the NIC  in the AA merger, I ask this:  The bottom guy at AWA (and they have done zero hiring in 8 years) can now hold C/O on the East.  Where does that put our bottom guy from 2005 now?  This entire new union affair has not been pretty, but I am so proud of our guys sticking together, especially the ones with no real dog in the fight, and helping us to correct the injustice that was done by the senile old man.  I am simply stunned one of our own would come here and argue otherwise.  I guess selfishness has no bounds, and greed goes unchallenged when it benefits such individuals. RR[/SIZE]

 

[Crzipilot]

Anyone giving praise to CM throws their credibility out the window with that one statement.  
 
Nothing else to say there....

 

[nic4us]

When does that nic disappear also when will the aa n us east n west begin ur integration process

The Nic does not disappear until it is incorporated into the combined AMR/LCC list to form the list for the new AAL pilot roster.

The integration will begin by establishing an integration protocol within 30 days of the effective date. Further, if no solution is agreed upon within 90 days of the effective date we go to arbitration, which will begin once there is a JCBA

 

[Pi brat]

[SIZE=14pt] I find it strange that the most vocal anti USAPA, pro NIC pilot on this forum was a product of nepotism (good for him.)  RR[/SIZE]
 

I have to call you on this one RR. He wasn't a product of nepotism, at least not completely. He is just a little junior to me and when I got hired PI had an anti-nepotism policy. You could not work under the same VP as your parent. It changed after I got hired, so maybe that's when TJ got hired, a lot of pilots kids did, or his father had retired. Either way, PI didn't give anyone a job. Their attitude was we want a good employee first, and then we can make them a good pilot. If we get one of the rare ones that has made it this far an we can't make them a good pilot, we will get rid of them on probation. They fired a long time F/A son about the time I was hired. If PI had a good employee and they recommended some one, that was golden with them. Did they put too much weight on that? I don't know. Sure some slipped by, but they had a great airline with one of the most loyal employee groups ever.
 
TJ was qualified, I believe he had been flying a 707 or DC-8. I've flown with him and had no problem with his flying ability. He went out of his way to look after the F/As. That shouldn't be an issue with him.
 
I believe it was nepotism on the northern side of the fence that caused the company to lose an EEOC case, where they hired a pilot that didn't meet their qualifications, but turned down two African-American pilots that did. I may be off, it's been a long time, but that's the way I remember it.
 
All that said, I have issues with TJ. I don't get him. He has never changed his tune about his ideas of SLI integration as some have, but IMHO they were as screwed up in 2005 as they are now! He seems to see no value in his career, the time he has invested and the sacrifices he has made. When I read his posts visions of Wayne's World pop into my head, "We're not worthy, we're not worthy!" How any east pilot could hold up the Nic is beyond me.
 
Just calling it as I see it.

 

[Pi brat]

The Nic does not disappear until it is incorporated into the combined AMR/LCC list to form the list for the new AAL pilot roster.

The integration will begin by establishing an integration protocol within 30 days of the effective date. Further, if no solution is agreed upon within 90 days of the effective date we go to arbitration, which will begin once there is a JCBA

That's not what the MOU says. It was a product of the TA and we amended the TA then it goes poof at POR.

 

[Reed Richards]

I have to call you on this one RR. He wasn't a product of nepotism, at least not completely. He is just a little junior to me and when I got hired PI had an anti-nepotism policy. You could not work under the same VP as your parent. It changed after I got hired, so maybe that's when TJ got hired, a lot of pilots kids did, or his father had retired. Either way, PI didn't give anyone a job. Their attitude was we want a good employee first, and then we can make them a good pilot. If we get one of the rare ones that has made it this far an we can't make them a good pilot, we will get rid of them on probation. They fired a long time F/A son about the time I was hired. If PI had a good employee and they recommended some one, that was golden with them. Did they put too much weight on that? I don't know. Sure some slipped by, but they had a great airline with one of the most loyal employee groups ever.
 
TJ was qualified, I believe he had been flying a 707 or DC-8. I've flown with him and had no problem with his flying ability. He went out of his way to look after the F/As. That shouldn't be an issue with him.
 
I believe it was nepotism on the northern side of the fence that caused the company to lose an EEOC case, where they hired a pilot that didn't meet their qualifications, but turned down two African-American pilots that did. I may be off, it's been a long time, but that's the way I remember it.
 
All that said, I have issues with TJ. I don't get him. He has never changed his tune about his ideas of SLI integration as some have, but IMHO they were as screwed up in 2005 as they are now! He seems to see no value in his career, the time he has invested and the sacrifices he has made. When I read his posts visions of Wayne's World pop into my head, "We're not worthy, we're not worthy!" How any east pilot could hold up the Nic is beyond me.
 
Just calling it as I see it.

Way too much on a simple aside.  The guy acts like a horse's rear end here on this forum, he does not merit your defense on any matter.  Just calling it as I see it.  RR

 

[nic4us]

That's not what the MOU says. It was a product of the TA and we amended the TA then it goes poof at POR.

Can you point out in the MOU where it specifically says the Nic is no longer a consideration, or more to the point, exactly where in the MOU it says the West pilot class or any LCC pilot for that matter, waive there right to the Nic?

The MOU is not a "waiver" of the legal rights of the pilot group to demand implementation and use of the arbitrated award.

My best prediction is, the outcome of the MB process will incorporate the Nic, whether the panel says they used it or not, and that the order of LCC pilots within the order of the total AAL pilots will not change one pilots position.

 

[nic4us]

Way too much on a simple aside.  The guy acts like a horse's rear end here on this forum, he does not merit your defense on any matter.  Just calling it as I see it.  RR

Speaking of too much info, we can sum the east position very succinctly.

USAPA=SCAB

 

[Pi brat]

Way too much on a simple aside.  The guy acts like a horse's rear end here on this forum, he does not merit your defense on any matter.  Just calling it as I see it.  RR

I disagree. No one is all good or all bad. Well, maybe a few, but you get the point.
 
Just like our friend 924PS. He was one of my favorite captains to fly with and think is a good guy, but at times he has really frustrated me here.
 
My point is that it doesn't matter how he got her or what kind of pilot he is. His views on the SLI are so far removed from the rest of the group that few agree with him.
 
See, even though I agree with you on most things, I disagree with you on this one. 🙂

 

[Pi brat]

Can you point out in the MOU where it specifically says the Nic is no longer a consideration, or more to the point, exactly where in the MOU it says the West pilot class or any LCC pilot for that matter, waive there right to the Nic?

The MOU is not a "waiver" of the legal rights of the pilot group to demand implementation and use of the arbitrated award.

My best prediction is, the outcome of the MB process will incorporate the Nic, whether the panel says they used it or not, and that the order of LCC pilots within the order of the total AAL pilots will not change one pilots position.

I think it's pretty clear. I think the testimony of Ken Holmes makes it even more clear. I will never convince you and you will never convince me. Your use of the word scab make you and your opinion pretty much worthless.