Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[prechilill]

What do Lee Seham and Mark King have in common?
 
They were both fired by usAPA  LOL!

 

[Claxon]

What do Lee Seham and Mark King have in common?
They were both fired by usAPA  LOL!

You have a very serious credibility issue to overcome.
http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/55650-august-2013-pilot-discussion/page-656#entry1031870

 

[Reed Richards]

  But our BPR figured it out and had that authority, so its kinda moot now.  
 

 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Yep, that is the bottom line. "A vote was taken."[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]A "vote was taken" on LOA 96, the Transition Agreement, via a vote on E-190 pay, and our pilots agreed to a process and rules. The rules were not honored, and thus a vote was NEVER taken as to the implantation of a flawed seniority list.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Yet another "vote was taken," and the majority of our pilots agreed to bond to a new union. Skip to many years later, and no merge of lists, and a "vote was taken" to change the process and abandon the old one (that would be the "new" transition agreement called the MOU.) That vote passed by a very, very large majority, in fact including almost all the West Class voting Aye.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]The latest vote was taken, but the BPR in fact screwed the pooch, so to speak on the signing bonus. Once again, the West Reps, all lawyered up with donation monies, missed a small error, one that affects a small group of pilots they actually despise and think have no value in any merger..that would be those on furlough (in this case ALL off the property by choice.) [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]So far, no court in the land, even abetted by our lying management, has seen fit to overturn a vote by the member pilots. That will not change. Unless our BPR is stupid enough to revisit this issue and delay all our monies, the methodology will stand..as reference "the vote taken." RR[/SIZE]

 

[Reed Richards]

 
 
he did...that was the start of their law firm.   Sehams father was APA attorney I believe for a number of years.  
 
The dirty little secret is Sehams law firm did alot of ALPO work when they didn't want to get dirty with the job....

[SIZE=10.5pt]I was actually an elected ALPA rep with a vote for years, a position I never held at USAPA, despite all the compliments here. ALPA was not evil, I paid my dues in full until the last day. I simply did not agree with their merger policy and its flawed implementation. It’s a shame they did not figure out their faults until the UAL/CO merger. Sure would have been a lot easier and productive to stay with ALPA, warts and all. But obviously that was not the case. USAPA did a darn fine, but obviously not perfect, job filling that void. RR[/SIZE]

 

[Phoenix]

 
 
Not complaining,   but under that same thought process....all the furloughed guys should have shared equal parts of all the stock options (davey dollars)   that were awarded through loa 93 or 91,  whichever.     don't remember if there was anything else the furloughed guys were excluded from

 
 
As a union we can promote unity of the entire seniority list or we can accept divisions that management is happy to exploit.  Just because management classifies pilots differently on the seniority list (LTD, active, furlough, SIC, LV, etc.) doesn't mean we have to accept that as justification for creating differences in the pilot list that otherwise wouldn't need to exist.   I'll give you a couple examples....
 
 
Consider this.... When it came time to vote on the representation election to have ALPA or USAPA, the NMB authorized all the furloughed pilots to vote.  I would suggest that if the furloughed pilots were excluded from voting we would all be ALPO bitches working under a Kirby contract with the NIC rout in full force.    Also consider that Jets4Jobs and LOA 3 probably would have never passed if furloughed pilots were given the same rights as the NMB provided for the representational election.  
 
Pay rates based on years of service rather than type would also promote unity.... 
 
But all this would assume that strength through unity is the prime aspiration of a union, which may or may not be borne out in the facts.     

 

[Phoenix]

 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Yep, that is the bottom line. "A vote was taken."[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]A "vote was taken" on LOA 96, the Transition Agreement, via a vote on E-190 pay, and our pilots agreed to a process and rules. The rules were not honored, and thus a vote was NEVER taken as to the implantation of a flawed seniority list.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Yet another "vote was taken," and the majority of our pilots agreed to bond to a new union. Skip to many years later, and no merge of lists, and a "vote was taken" to change the process and abandon the old one (that would be the "new" transition agreement called the MOU.) That vote passed by a very, very large majority, in fact including almost all the West Class voting Aye.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]The latest vote was taken, but the BPR in fact screwed the pooch, so to speak on the signing bonus. Once again, the West Reps, all lawyered up with donation monies, missed a small error, one that affects a small group of pilots they actually despise and think have no value in any merger..that would be those on furlough (in this case ALL off the property by choice.) [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]So far, no court in the land, even abetted by our lying management, has seen fit to overturn a vote by the member pilots. That will not change. Unless our BPR is stupid enough to revisit this issue and delay all our monies, the methodology will stand..as reference "the vote taken." RR[/SIZE]

 
Now that you have a blemished record (ie."the merger won't happen"... though, you were too emphatic for me to be persuaded you believed yourself 😀 )....  Do you think Silver will unilaterally alter a negotiated contract?  She telegraphs a displeasure/exasperation with USAPA, but does she believe herself as much as her audience believes her?  

 

[Phoenix]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I was actually an elected ALPA rep with a vote for years, a position I never held at USAPA, despite all the compliments here. ALPA was not evil, I paid my dues in full until the last day. I simply did not agree with their merger policy and its flawed implementation. It’s a shame they did not figure out their faults until the UAL/CO merger. Sure would have been a lot easier and productive to stay with ALPA, warts and all. But obviously that was not the case. USAPA did a darn fine, but obviously not perfect, job filling that void. RR[/SIZE]

Sure ALPA wasn't evil, and we can all excuse ALPA now that they seem to have made a course correction on merger policy.  But maybe not so fast...
 
 For those pilots that don't have their vested defined benefit pension any more... well in their eyes ALPA may still be the personification of corruption, if not evil.... at least to the extent that Herdon's parking lot is full of luxury cars and the employee lot is full of beaters.  
 
There is no doubt ALPA was good in many respects for many people, and for some the seniority list was the only real heartburn, but for many others ALPA doesn't ring any pleasant bells.  I can't really complain about how it turned out, as we like to say,  "The vote of the membership is the vote."  Anything else is sorta moot.  😀  

 

[Reed Richards]

 
 
 For those pilots that don't have their vested defined benefit pension any more... well in their eyes ALPA may still be the personification of corruption, if not evil.... at least to the extent that Herdon's parking lot is full of luxury cars and the employee lot is full of beaters.  
 

I note that all said and done, in the end, it was a vote by our own reps that gave away our pensions.  A vote my own rep promised me he would never make.  That is why I have never had much faith in the efforts of the PIC.  Sorry to wear out the phrase, but...a vote was taken. RR

 

[Reed Richards]

 
Now that you have a blemished record (ie."the merger won't happen"... though, you were too emphatic for me to be persuaded you believed yourself 😀

🙂

 

[prechilill]

The love affair!!!  Priceless...
 
Consoling each other in times of duress- that's what friends are for!!!
 
Oh RR, you will adjust to the Nic.  It is what it is

 

[end_of_alpa]

I read 4 of the West depos.  3 of the 4 stated flatly that a furlough pilot brings NOTHING to a merger, in fact they were all asked to clarify..and all 3 said they should go to the bottom of any list.  These depos were in September 2013.  And oh yeah, the 4th guy?  He was on furlough by choice, in fact dropped out of school on the East to go BACK to furlough. You cannot make this stuff up. What a bunch of selfish as....oles.  They were willing to throw the next guy sitting down for deposition under the bus.  I can guarentee they all could care less about these guys in question getting profit sharing.  Its all about "using" their situation to gum up the works. RR

Why is ANY pilot in this profession surprised at what West pilots do? They hate us, they'll do anything including sabotaging their own careers just to wreak revenge on East pilots. If the APA and ALPA pilots aren't following this they better. Because this kind of behavior WILL get worse. They'll probably have a special line in the airport TSA that frisks them and also a camera in the cockpit taping them. Why do you think the company has cameras in the crew rooms now? West pilots are the "Robert Fords" of the airline profession.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Dear Mr. Lee Seham,
 
Thank you. You were correct from the start. The west victims did not listen to you then and they are still claiming victim status to date.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xO8PnZWWnE

Those West pilot EMBARRASSMENT tapes are titled can't take the heat. Nobody can take the heat that baked the a West pilot brain. Every West pilot is someone that shouldn't be in a cockpit. Mark my words, they're going to do something that makes what Mayor Robert Ford did in Toronto a heroic action. They already do now.

Wait for it.

 

[luvthe9]

The love affair!!!  Priceless...
 
Consoling each other in times of duress- that's what friends are for!!!
 
Oh RR, you will adjust to the Nic.  It is what it is

The Nic is like the Confederate flag. Lost cause. It will wave in your face as a constant reminder of your loss.

 

[end_of_alpa]

West pilot mentality:

"BY MR. SZYMANSKI:

Q. The irreconcilable conflict that you referred to between USAPA and West Pilots, that irreconcilable conflict is a conflict over the unmodified Nicolau Award, it not?

A. No.

Q. So what is it?

A. It's inherent in each of us to fulfill what is best for us as individuals and then collectively with those who are similarly situated."

Me first, THEN everyone else! Scabs have the same mentality. Jeff makes the Borg look like a democrat think tank.

 

[nic4us]

Those West pilot EMBARRASSMENT tapes are titled can't take the heat. Nobody can take the heat that baked the a West pilot brain. Every West pilot is someone that shouldn't be in a cockpit. Mark my words, they're going to do something that makes what Mayor Robert Ford did in Toronto a heroic action. They already do now.
Wait for it.

USAPA=SCAB

Have a nice day....oh, and try not to read the company filing from yesterday. We do not want any usapa scabs being lumped into your category of "should not be in a cockpit" , for what I assume is your notion that somebody will go postal.