Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

She CANNOT legally carve the West out and grant it class status. She cannot legally go around the NMB on this issue. You need to read RLA law and procedure, as well as her. There are rules and regulations which specifically pertain to unions and their operation, as well as interaction with the company. She cannot even tell a union how to order a seniority list, so if she does ANY class or Nic order she WILL be corrected.
Reading some of the opinions about an AZ judge having the power to interfere with a legally elected union and telling it what list to submit is absolutely wrong.

 
Well sir...I'm unfortunately less able to presume a result that's at all rational, given what we've previously seen from AZ local courts, but I'd think it almost axiomatic that an appeal will result from whatever ruling's provided here, from one side or the other. From the contemporary perspective of an eastie:  Who cares, really? I'd think the worst the mighty "spartans" can manage at this point's little more than additional delay, and with universal compensation soon to become a moot point...well again; who cares?...Unless one's locked up in PHX I suppose, which comes under the heading of being a purely "personal problem".

 

[EastUS1]

 
That sorry "spartan" lad clearly lives only inside Fantasyland for now, and not the real world, where one very sadly, sometimes attends the funerals of both fine Aviators and well respected friends.....

 
Even that got two minus votes already?  What possible part of: "not the real world, where one very sadly, sometimes attends the funerals of both fine Aviators and well respected friends" did "you'se" take "righteous" exception to? Sigh! No matter. Go "spartans!"...and don't forget to feed the "dire wolves", little "soldiers".

 

[Claxon]

Your meager signing bonus, USAirways pilots, will be sent sometime in January 2014, when the company finds the time and after the america west pilots law suits.  The American Pilots will get theirs on "Day 1".  BOHICA.  Happy holidays everyone.
Thanks for all you do.  USAirways pilots your retro pay may be at the end of December, if the company has time.  Sometime during "year 1", the company may pay USAirways pilots................................
 
"On Day 1, the Company will deposit shares of the new American Airlines (AAL) equal to the pilot's share of the Day 1 equity distribution (minus approximately 30% for income and payroll tax withholding) into a brokerage account at ComputerShare. At that point, those shares will immediately be under the pilot's control and may be held, sold or transferred as desired."
 
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/AboutAPA/APAPublicNews/tabid/843/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3707/Equity-Distribution-Mechanics-and-Scenarios.aspx

 

[Phoenix]

Your meager signing bonus, USAirways pilots, will be sent sometime in January 2014, when the company finds the time and after the america west pilots law suits.  The American Pilots will get theirs on "Day 1".  BOHICA.  Happy holidays everyone.
Thanks for all you do.  USAirways pilots your retro pay may be at the end of December, if the company has time.  Sometime during "year 1", the company may pay USAirways pilots................................
 
"On Day 1, the Company will deposit shares of the new American Airlines (AAL) equal to the pilot's share of the Day 1 equity distribution (minus approximately 30% for income and payroll tax withholding) into a brokerage account at ComputerShare. At that point, those shares will immediately be under the pilot's control and may be held, sold or transferred as desired."
 
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/AboutAPA/APAPublicNews/tabid/843/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3707/Equity-Distribution-Mechanics-and-Scenarios.aspx

 
 
Regardless of Silver's ruling, there is no risk to giving the APA pilots a big hunk of money... They will not be tempted to spend any extra money on lawsuits.    That, and they as  a pilot group have a spine.  

 

[Reed Richards]

Your meager signing bonus, USAirways pilots, will be sent sometime in January 2014, when the company finds the time and after the america west pilots law suits.  The American Pilots will get theirs on "Day 1".  BOHICA.  Happy holidays everyone.
Thanks for all you do.  USAirways pilots your retro pay may be at the end of December, if the company has time.  Sometime during "year 1", the company may pay USAirways pilots................................
 
"On Day 1, the Company will deposit shares of the new American Airlines (AAL) equal to the pilot's share of the Day 1 equity distribution (minus approximately 30% for income and payroll tax withholding) into a brokerage account at ComputerShare. At that point, those shares will immediately be under the pilot's control and may be held, sold or transferred as desired."
 
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/AboutAPA/APAPublicNews/tabid/843/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3707/Equity-Distribution-Mechanics-and-Scenarios.aspx

 
[SIZE=10.5pt]I hear you Clax, it sucks. We deserve much better, but lacked the leverage and a united pilot group, not even including the West. The AMR BK was all about the 4B in their retirement plan, and management snatching it from the pilots. APA had the advantage of watching the other majors go through BK, and played it well, as best they could. Getting it frozen instead of cancelled was huge; at least their own governing body did not completely give it away. They were smart enough to leave ALPA a half century ago. Good for them getting what they got (and I have to laugh that that includes merging with our rag tag group of my friends and misfits.)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]I was offered a ladder out of hole, and it was not chrome plated. But hopefully in a few weeks (or as you say months) I will at least be above ground. RR[/SIZE]

 

[crazystnic]

see following post, so much for the west claim that all the retirements are FO's.

 

[Reed Richards]

So much for the west claim that all the retirements  are FO's.
 
http://screencast.com/t/pc4ZiMIpk7Xo

I was just looking at that. 8 of the 11 are senior to me, and I am by no means "senior." And if you want a real snapshot of the East airline, just look at the current 737 C/O list in CLT.  Time moves on, good luck to those leaving. RR

 

[crazystnic]

 

 

[Piedmont1984]

Like I said, just trying to predict what Silver will rule. Any legal corrections, admonitions or reversals from the 9th is the subject of the next installment of 'let's play legal expert'.

So I'll stick with 3 way. Like east said, Wake I at the AZ level didn't conform to RLA law either.

 

[Claxon]

Like I said, just trying to predict what Silver will rule. Any legal corrections, admonitions or reversals from the 9th is the subject of the next installment of 'let's play legal expert'.

So I'll stick with 3 way. Like east said, Wake I at the AZ level didn't conform to RLA law either.

Typical thoughts of the bravo dog in the pack.

 

[Piedmont1984]

She CANNOT legally carve the West out and grant it class status. She cannot legally go around the NMB on this issue. You need to read RLA law and procedure, as well as her. There are rules and regulations which specifically pertain to unions and their operation, as well as interaction with the company. She cannot even tell a union how to order a seniority list, so if she does ANY class or Nic order she WILL be corrected.
Reading some of the opinions about an AZ judge having the power to interfere with a legally elected union and telling it what list to submit is absolutely wrong.

You could have enumerated the same warnings regarding RLA law and procedure in Judge Wake's court. In fact our attorneys probably did, or tried, but to no avail.

 

[Claxon]

You could have enumerated the same warnings regarding RLA law and procedure in Judge Wake's court. In fact our attorneys probably did, or tried, but to no avail.

alpa shill.  Your hero alpa union had their ass kicked off the USAirways property, get over it.

 

[Reed Richards]

Typical thoughts of the bravo dog in the pack.

That is but one of the reasons I stopped responding to his trivia.  His arguments simply do not reflect any logic, much less a knowledge of the law or respect for his fellow pilots that have actually stepped up for change.  Let me narrow my discussion.  Anyone that thinks Silver could rule either way is spot on with logic. Anyone that thinks there is a basis for the West Class to have a seat simply "because it seems right" are clueless and not paying attention. RR

 

[Piedmont1984]

Typical thoughts of the bravo dog in the pack.

I must have hurt your feelings sometime in the past. You should move on. It's not healthy. You also seem to have a dog fetish.

 

[Claxon]

I must have hurt your feelings sometime in the past. You should move on. It's not healthy. You also seem to have a dog fetish.

alpa shill.
 

 
Us Airways, America West Seniority Dispute rough draft timeline

2005-2006  US Airways, United in merger talks

2005 Us Airways, America West merge

May 2007  Arbitrator George Nicolau’ pilot seniority award was issued.  The award was written with the assistance of two ALPA pilot neutrals, Steve Gillen United Airlines Pilot and  Jim Brucia former Continental pilot now United Airlines Pilot.

2007 Us Airways pilots ask ALPA to review the award.  ALPA president  John Prater, former Continental pilot now United Airlines pilot, assigns ALPA vice president Paul Rice, United pilot,  to review the award.

December 2007,  Paul Rice, United pilot, delivers seniority list to Us Airways.

2007  A group of Us Airways pilots start a drive to start their own in house pilot union.

March 2008  ALPA puts the Us Airways ALPA Mec in trusteeship.

April  2008  In a National Mediation Board sanctioned election, Us Airways pilots oust ALPA and vote in USAPA as their official pilot representative.

May 2008  United calls off merger talk with Us Airways.

June 24, 2008   United Airlines starts furloughing pilots that will eventually lead to 1450 pilots at United on the street.  Had a merger occurred using the Nicolau award derived with the assistance of United pilot neutrals,  Us Airways pilots would have suffered the brunt of the furloughs and few United pilots would have been affected.

2008  America West pilots sue for DFR against USAPA.

2009  2010 US Airways and United restart merger talks.

April 2010  United Us Airways end merger talks.

June 2010  The 9th circuit court rules in USAPA’s favor.