Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Reed Richards]

Yep,  here is where the weak language in the MOU starts to bite us.   What SHOULD happen is on the 9th we go to full DH pay, AA greenbook rigs, etc.     But we all know what IS going to happen is we will continue on current rigs and DH pay etc.  
 
Anybody want to lay the odds on us actually getting the Jan 1st pay raise as scheduled?   Not saying they will or they wont,  just stating that nothing with this place is 100% unless it benefits the company.
 
Was very disappointed that it appears mgmt. is starting the same old "we'll that's going to be tricky" even before the ink is dry on this whole thing.

 
[SIZE=10.5pt]The MOU is by no means the end all be all , and especially is not even complete in its descriptions of "changeover" events. But without it, we would still be at LOA 93 rates, Parker would still be ringing the bell at NASDAQ on Monday, and you would be reading the Grievance Chair's update on when our COC and Code Share complaints would be heard.  I will wince at the "bite", but its worth it.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]My suggestion to you all is to appreciate we are getting major improvements in a lot of areas.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Meanwhile Frear (the one who QUIT the NAC) continues to preach he could have done better, all the while trying to fire the President and change the CBL to give the CLT reps (and here it is, straight from Cleary...) "More Power."[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Management has not changed, in fact they have gotten worse since the MOU was signed. But come Monday my entire family will benefit from the level headed thinking that at least got us where we are, rather than the constant carping by those who think "more, more, more..or nothing."[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]We will fight these management liars and thieves for the rest of our careers, but at least we will start getting good wage while we do so.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Check your V file at work. The Company just told you what your rate is on 1 January.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]THANKS Kero for letting me vent; of course your concerns are valid. I am just amazed that others cannot at least appreciate  change for the better.[/SIZE]
 
RR

 

[nycbusdriver]

The Operating Certificate doesnt go with your CBA, that between the FAA and the airlines.

 I think that was MY point.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I think Captains Bular and Hogg are staying on until the joint ops certificate, but that doesn't mean they will really be making the big decisions.

 
From Ed Bular's mouth directly to my ear:  He will stay until a single FAA Operating Certificate is obtained, at which point he will retire.
 
I think Lyle Hogg is staying in some capacity.
 
Bob Skinner is staying in a capacity similar to what he does now, but shared responsibility with his AA equivalent.
 
All the US sim instructors, i.e. not the check airmen or APDs, are going back to the line.

 

[Reed Richards]

 
From Ed Bular's mouth directly to my ear:  He will stay until a single FAA Operating Certificate is obtained, at which point he will retire.
 
I think Lyle Hogg is staying in some capacity.
 
Bob Skinner is staying in a capacity similar to what he does now, but shared responsibility with his AA equivalent.
 
All the US sim instructors, i.e. not the check airmen or APDs, are going back to the line.

I thought Bular was just sticking around until his cactus callsign was retired.  RR

 

[Piedmont1984]

From Ed Bular's mouth directly to my ear:  He will stay until a single FAA Operating Certificate is obtained, at which point he will retire.
 
I think Lyle Hogg is staying in some capacity.
 
Bob Skinner is staying in a capacity similar to what he does now, but shared responsibility with his AA equivalent.
 
All the US sim instructors, i.e. not the check airmen or APDs, are going back to the line.

So I'm assuming the company will need more check airmen. Otherwise the existing ones will be working berry berry hard.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Check your V file at work. The Company just told you what your rate is on 1 January.
 
RR

Just curious. Any surprises here? Is it the new rate, old rate, or something else. With these guys, not much will surprise me.

 

[Pi brat]

Just curious. Any surprises here? Is it the new rate, old rate, or something else. With these guys, not much will surprise me.

No surprises, the ones in the MOU.

 

[Reed Richards]

Just curious. Any surprises here? Is it the new rate, old rate, or something else. With these guys, not much will surprise me.

Since its always "about me" I did not check the other rates.  But mine were the same as published by the NAC. 
 
Sorry about that, did not mean to creat doubt, especially after my rant!  RR

 

[Keroseneuser]

Think RR took my post the wrong way.  I am pleased to see improvements coming.   I am not thrilled to see what appears to be more feet dragging on contract items by the company.   We will be expected to fully and completely comply with the terms in the MOU regarding every little work rule and nuance as printed on December 10th.....but initial reports seem to be that the company is not too concerned with easy to fix things like full credit for DH etc. as they appear in the MOU.     
 
If these reports are inaccurate then please ignore the above.   I guess given the history we have on similar subjects,  ACARS, etc is what makes me take the "Believe it when I see it" stance.  

 

[Pi brat]

Think RR took my post the wrong way.  I am pleased to see improvements coming.   I am not thrilled to see what appears to be more feet dragging on contract items by the company.   We will be expected to fully and completely comply with the terms in the MOU regarding every little work rule and nuance as printed on December 10th.....but initial reports seem to be that the company is not too concerned with easy to fix things like full credit for DH etc. as they appear in the MOU.     
 
If these reports are inaccurate then please ignore the above.   I guess given the history we have on similar subjects,  ACARS, etc is what makes me take the "Believe it when I see it" stance.  

As I read it the MOU says that only pay and DC contributions are set in stone at POR. We gave the company the latitude to implement everything else as they see fit.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Think RR took my post the wrong way.  I am pleased to see improvements coming.   I am not thrilled to see what appears to be more feet dragging on contract items by the company.   We will be expected to fully and completely comply with the terms in the MOU regarding every little work rule and nuance as printed on December 10th.....but initial reports seem to be that the company is not too concerned with easy to fix things like full credit for DH etc. as they appear in the MOU.     
 
If these reports are inaccurate then please ignore the above.   I guess given the history we have on similar subjects,  ACARS, etc is what makes me take the "Believe it when I see it" stance.

All these provisions that should be effective, but will instead be delayed by the company, such as vacation, DH, etc. - can be taken care of in the interim by paying us the difference, QED. This was discussed at the last domicile meeting when the NAC made their presentation. If the company can't implement - then pay the difference.

Task the NAC, contact your reps.

 

[Crzipilot]

As I read it the MOU says that only pay and DC contributions are set in stone at POR. We gave the company the latitude to implement everything else as they see fit.

 
that's the way I read it.   So it's basically sit and wait for the memo that says this section is now going to be changed etc.  
 
Such as distance learning.   MOU or somewhere it says the first DL event offered after POR will be paid accordingly. 
 
Lo and behold,  what do we get today via CBS.    The introduction of our next DL.   Introduced prior to the POR so will be completed for free on the East.   Oh well.   at least it should be the last one.
 
They couldn't have waited 7 days?

 

[Keroseneuser]

Was out flying when last domicile meeting was so did not get that info.
 
So are we going to have to track these differences and file for them?      I am assuming that due to the west pilots being changed to our payroll system that they are going to be dealing with 1/2 credit for DH etc now as well.

 

[Pi brat]

 
that's the way I read it.   So it's basically sit and wait for the memo that says this section is now going to be changed etc.  
 
Such as distance learning.   MOU or somewhere it says the first DL event offered after POR will be paid accordingly. 
 
Lo and behold,  what do we get today via CBS.    The introduction of our next DL.   Introduced prior to the POR so will be completed for free on the East.   Oh well.   at least it should be the last one.
 
They couldn't have waited 7 days?

They could have, but when does a tiger change it's stripes? I imagine they are hating the checks they are going to write in the next month and not too interesting in giving away anything else.
 
You remember the old cartoon of sheepdog Sam and wolf Ralph? They cordially said good morning to each other as they clocked in for work, then they went at it. That's how I see it. It's just business to them.
 
Fair, nice has no place in their mind unless their is a return behind it. Just how it is and we shouldn't expect more. We should just learn when we do the contracts.

 

[Phoenix]

Think RR took my post the wrong way.  I am pleased to see improvements coming.   I am not thrilled to see what appears to be more feet dragging on contract items by the company.   We will be expected to fully and completely comply with the terms in the MOU regarding every little work rule and nuance as printed on December 10th.....but initial reports seem to be that the company is not too concerned with easy to fix things like full credit for DH etc. as they appear in the MOU.     
 
If these reports are inaccurate then please ignore the above.   I guess given the history we have on similar subjects,  ACARS, etc is what makes me take the "Believe it when I see it" stance.  

 
 
Yes,  Kudos to the union reps (all of them, not just the ones that got along with management 😀 ) for negotiating something better than what we had. 
 
And now that we have a contract, a pox upon any company stiff that steals more from the employees while hiding behind Obama Care Website type excuses of "its hard".   I think there will be millions to be made selling voodoo doll action figures (err, I mean inaction figures)!