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Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

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Res Judicata said:
Au Contrarire. On Monday we are one. We have as many wb as you do.
So when an East WB breaks down on Tuesday, which West metal will stub for it?   And if East WB crews falls ill on the new crew meals, which West pilots will fly for them?  You are such a tool, and apparently French on top of that, especially considering what I hear "cactus" means over there.  RR
 
Res Judicata said:
Au Contrarire. On Monday we are one. We have as many wb as you do.
Res is one of the dimmer bulbs illuminating for the west division. He cannot produce one type rated A 330 pilot in PHX.
 
N924PS said:
Besides reneging on a mutually agreed to arbitration process, the 7 year delay in obtaining a joint CBA has prevented West pilots from realizing their share of E190 flying, B757 flying and their share of any additional widebody flying created as a result of the AW/US merger.
 
I believe USAirways has taken delivery of 12 additional A330's since the merger, with more on order including A350 deliveries. Airplanes that would never have been on the property absent the merger. West pilots have every right to a share of that additional widebody flying. You seem to forget there WAS a merger.
 
Several pilots have posited that APA will be delighted to negotiate an integrated seniority list with USAPA. I disagree and believe this will play out in arbitration several years down the road. As in McCaskill-Bond. There simply no way the AA pilots will allow a 25 year seniority East pilot F/O to be merged DOH with a 25 year seniority AA Widebody Captain. No condition or restriction could be crafted to mitigate that disparity. The AA/US ISL will go much like UA/CO, DL/NW. Sorry. No DOH in 2007 and no DOH now.
 
At least while the continuing drama "As The Turbine Turns" plays out, East and West are finally getting long overdue raises. However, along with that comes a change in contractual language in many areas, many not as good as what we have lived under for much of our careers at USAirways or America West. Lots "TBD" going forward.
 
Unfortunately, and as is highlighted yet again by the latest USAPA infighting, we will never present a unified front in any negotiation and  thus will never have a real lever or hammer to wield against management or the APA. I too will welcome APA as my bargaining agent and look forward to becoming an American Airlines pilot.
You need to tell the APA you want their 777 s
Your western pals kept your pay lower for years, and in the process screwed themselves out of the gains of your merger. As of Monday they will be equally paid with the east yet have kept themselves off the 330 for possibly a few more years. Pretty short sighted.
Let the decent east pilots remind them every day that not only did they lose the Nicolau, they paid that criminal Harper millions. Now they are locked off the high 330 pay. Prechillil can only smell stale seats of that jet. The money has again, eluded her.
 
N924PS said:
 
I believe USAirways has taken delivery of 12 additional A330's since the merger, with more on order including A350 deliveries. Airplanes that would never have been on the property absent the merger. West pilots have every right to a share of that additional widebody flying. You seem to forget there WAS a merger.
 
 
So all of us easties are now entitled to AMR's 777"s because of the merge, I don't think so.  We have no rights to what they brought just as AWA was about to go under they have no rights to our widebody flying, just be happy you got yours.!!!!!!  Watch for DOH with C&R's
 
The A330's came after the merger with a America West and as a result of it.
 
You will not see DOH with C&R's ever. You are going to arbitration with APA.
 
N924PS said:
Besides reneging on a mutually agreed to arbitration process, the 7 year delay in obtaining a joint CBA has prevented West pilots from realizing their share of E190 flying, B757 flying and their share of any additional widebody flying created as a result of the AW/US merger.
 
Amazing. Simply amazing.
 
So PS, would you agree with me that any reneging really didn't play a role in where we are? That we could be in the exact same position if we had stayed with ALPA, followed the transition agreement and just used it "veto" a joint contract?
 
Pi brat said:
Amazing. Simply amazing.
 
So PS, would you agree with me that any reneging really didn't play a role in where we are? That we could be in the exact same position if we had stayed with ALPA, followed the transition agreement and just used it "veto" a joint contract?
We could be in the same position, but I don't think so.

I have always believed that had management presented a decent contract, NIc inclusive, it would have passed by a slim margin. But they chose the opportunistic path of keeping their labor costs low while East and West locked horns. Their gain our loss.
 
N924PS said:
The A330's came after the merger with a America West and as a result of it.
 
You will not see DOH with C&R's ever. You are going to arbitration with APA.
I got my type rating in the A330 in March of 2001 and flew several trips on it over that same summer.  The merger (just to refresh your memory) wasn't until 2005.  So was I imaging that or am I a liar?  We still had the A350's on order before the merger. FYI.
 
N924PS said:
We could be in the same position, but I don't think so.
I have always believed that had management presented a decent contract, NIc inclusive, it would have passed by a slim margin. But they chose the opportunistic path of keeping their labor costs low while East and West locked horns. Their gain our loss.
If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his rear on the ground. But the company never did, so that is irrelevant. What else you got?
 
end_of_alpa said:
I got my type rating in the A330 in March of 2001 and flew several trips on it over that same summer.  The merger (just to refresh your memory) wasn't until 2005.  So was I imaging that or am I a liar?  We still had the A350's on order before the merger. FYI.
The A350 not ordered until 2007.

USAirways had only 9 A330s until post merger. 12 have been delivered since with a few more on the way. They wouldn't be here without the merger. Thus West pilots should have a share.
 
Pi brat said:
If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his rear on the ground. But the company never did, so that is irrelevant. What else you got?
If you are saying we would be in the same situation almost nine years later had we remained ALPA, I would say no.
 
N924PS said:
The A350 not ordered until 2007.

USAirways had only 9 A330s until post merger. 12 have been delivered since with a few more on the way. They wouldn't be here without the merger. Thus West pilots should have a share.
There is no "share". It's what you can hold with your seniority. As soon as that is put to rest, they can bid them like anyone else.
 
A320 Driver said:
There is no "share". It's what you can hold with your seniority. As soon as that is put to rest, they can bid them like anyone else.
Perhaps I should have used the word "opportunity".
 
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