US Pilot Labor Thread--ALL Pilot/Union Issues Discussed Here

[dariencc]

Retirement money, union graft, and internet rumors. Gotta love it.

How long will it take before usapa runs out of thumbs to plug the dike?

I'm betting about as long as it will take for you to actually fly in combat.

 

[Metroyet]

Minor would have us join in bemoaning the loss of the previous members "experience." This focus on experience and lack of attention to such vital considerations as competence, intelligence, education, and success would leave us stuck in the past, Mark, and we are not prepared to go there.

Aside from proving that the angry FO club outnumbers the west, What "success" has USAPA had with being a real union? None.

"A union without unity is a body without blood...Dead."

 

[Richard]

Folks,

Here's another reminder:

Members are allowed ONLY 1 screen name. Creation of a duplicate to skirt suspension or to make inflammatory statements or any other reason will not be tolerated, and ALL screen names of the offending poster will be permanently canceled.

Time to grow up and play by the rules--and that goes for EVERYONE.

Oh and one more thing: The use of the word cult to describe any individual or group herein will be grounds for immediate suspension.

Discuss the ISSUES not the POSTERS.

 

[Megasnoop]

You realize that this myth of intimidation was started by USAPA themselves right?

Actually wrong, Metroal. USAPA didnt make up the fake phone calls, the stones and the eliminated whatever in the envelopes. USAPA also didnt make up the harassment and hostile work environment charges filed by one of your pilots who wanted to volunteer to be a Wst Rep. That investigatin is ongoing.

To be in "good standing" one would have to be member. USAPA conveniently left out the proper mechanism to bring West pilots into the fold. No one is in good or bad standing because, (until the tyranny of the majority changed the C&BLs) nobody was even a member.

Conveniently? It was your susie who filed a complaint with the company when she got the termination letter. Now the susie loophole closed. No matter, your all in now if you applied. We didnt turn down anyone. But dont pay your dues and even members wll be fired.

USAPA is a fake union. Go ahead and hide behind the NMB, and your "majority rules" BS if you like, but every single pilot west of the Mississippi knows exactly what USAPA is and what USAPA is for, and who they are really there to advance. Just like a soldier can't use the excuse of " I was just following orders" to commit atrocities, USAPA can't hide behind their rigged, easily manipulated, disenfranchising C&BLs and the perversion of the RLA and it's provisions.

Actually having an NMB-certified union makes us ligitimate. BTW, the USAPA constitution passed NMB muster. It is what it is, and if you dont pay, you will be fired.

Now you expect to extort money out of people for all of the brilliant "services" you military junta wants to ram down their throats? What kind of bitter, evil mindset gets off on this? I guess any garden variety playground Bully can answer that one. Fortunately, the best way to tame a bully is to bust him square in the mouth because in the end, All he is is a coward.

Kind of reminds you of ALPO? If you dont want to pay, dont pay. But you will be fired. Prediction: 75%+ dues compliance by Christmas. A couple of terminations will get the message across.

See you in Court tough guy.

Your quite the riot. Court or no court, youll still pay or get fired. snooper

 

[nycbusdriver]

Your quite the riot. Court or no court, youll still pay or get fired. snooper

Correct. The court antics on boths sides are mostly a sideshow. A serious sideshow, but a sideshow nonetheless.

The courts will ultimately decide the seniority issue, IMHO. I always figured as much anyway.

But the courts will not overturn a legal NMB election. I doubt any federal court other than the Supremes would even countenance such a thing. The perennial experts on the RLA is the NMB. If the NMB certified the election (and immediately announced that they would not hear challenges) means that the RLA was correctly followed. If the RLA is flawed, then it will be up to Congress to change it.

USAPA is here for at least the near term, probably the long term absent another merger. I really don't think the courts are going to go there. Rather than hang their judicial "members" way out there to be possibly chopped off at the root, judges at all levels will likely aver to the RLA which has been functioning quite well for decades.

 

[EastUS]

When it became apparent that the east people, or "sheep" per west postings were seriously pursuing the option of establishing an entirely new union (for MANY reasons exceeding merely the nic fiasco)...things turned increasingly vile. "I want the captain seat..and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it!" The fine bouquet of west arrogance and contemptuous dismissal of any and all east concerns couldn't help but be smelled far east of the Ole' Miss herself: "Let me know when the USAPA voting starts because I think this could be over before I even get a chuckle or two from this latest side show. Heck, I heard you guys are hard up for $$$ so if it will give us here on the west a few more laughs we'll even throw in a few bucks to keep the comedy club open."

Needless to say...immediately after the election..in keeping with only the highest possible standards of consistency, and of course..."integrity"...we had: "Alpa lost by 400 votes. the war is on". The adolescently absurd west shenanigans immediately started up with phone sabotage, disgfusting mailings, and have since evolved to such truly noble heights as the jumpseat games in progress out there.

Feel competely free to refresh all present's memory again as to the essential elements of "integrity"...."morals"...etc.

Addendum: Possibly, the most utterly absurd aspect in all of this, is that the west now claims themselves to be sad victims of imagined persecution. After the election, the universal west arrogance, with which the unquestionable triumph of Alpa was forecast and loudly trumpeted throughout the west, quickly, (and very conveniently) morphed into the sorry bleatings of a supposedly persecuted minority. All that was heard for some time (other than obscene phone calls and such tactics as would shame dyspeptic teenagers)..were wailings about "The Tyranny of the Majority"..said vile majority, pre-election, having been ridiculed as utterly impossible and entirely unthinkable. = "You won't even get 200 cards!!...Send the cards! I DARE you!!"/etc, ad nauseum The west, through their erstwhile primus-loud-mouthus, flatly stated that there was to be "All-Out Warfare!". It was blared loudly throughout the west, and easilly heard in the east. Every avenue of possible sabotage was explored and acted on by the west. Universal refusal to even admit to the existence of a legally and properly elected and certified union ran/yet runs rampant. All out east are perversely painted as being people who disdain law and protocol...while those out west fantasize themselves as entirely above the law as regards their, like it or not, legitimately established union.

Folks?..You simply can NOT make this kind of insanity up..and it's generally hard to find outside of the likes of the Jerry Springer Show. Let's hear some more about "integrity"...and of course "morals"...I could use a good laugh today

 

[Freighterguynow]

No goon squad here in the desert. We leave that sort of thing to you DELETED BY MODERATOR.


20 of us showed up to hear what USAPA had to say. Booted out.

I seem to recall a West pilot posting on the ALPA boards about numerous threatening, anonymous phone calls he received after sending in a USAPA vote during the election. In fact, he called his fellow West pilots "cowards".

I've seen ALPA 'boot out' furloughed and retired pilots hoping to address the MEC over topics like the elimination of retiree health care or over fly with pilots on furlough. They were, as well, denied even webboard access nor allowed to participate in a crummy telephonic poll of the pilots group over the age 65 issue.

There's more but ALPA clearly dealt only with its members in good standing.

 

[Metroyet]

I have little doubt that ultimately the Vast majority of the West will join USAPA. Don't get too excited however, an "en masse" joining plan is already being organized. Understand that the 1750 new union "brothers and sisters" won't be here to be "good union pilots", they'll vote/act in lockstep to frustrate, or otherwise impede any forward movement under your dictatorship. Not unlike a virus who invades the body and ultimately kills it.

The worse thing for USAPA and it's actual goals is 100% West membership. I'm sure Bradford et.al. would much prefer a mix of objectors and the terminated. After all, the goal is to claim jobs from someone else as half of yours are rotting out in the mojave.

If you think the West has been a problem for you now, just wait. You haven't seen anything yet.

 

[EastUS]

Not unlike a virus.....

🙄 Ah yes..but a virus replete with "integrity"..."principles"...and of course..."honor"

 

[grits]

Feel competely free to refresh all present's memory again as to the essential elements of "integrity"...."morals"...etc.

I've been reading this board long enough to see how the East came completly unglued after the Nic decision. This is after making an agreement to abide by a process and leave the determination to a third party. Hence the words, Final and Binding. I ask, why agree to a process with no intent to abide by the results? I can't decide which laws or FAR's to comply with because I do not agree with them. Obviously, there would be concequences for my non-compliance and disreguard for the law. I was raised to respect the law and a handshake could seal an agreement.

I want to see our dispute settled in court. Battling back and forth on this board is not going to settle the argument. I've watched it degenerate to a point of repeated warnings by the moderator are ignored. I am also amused how Piney Bob and Jim have become the target of the East's discontent.

I do agree wth you on one point EastUs, the jumpseat should not be used as a weapon in this dispute.

 

[Megasnoop]

I have little doubt that ultimately the Vast majority of the West will join USAPA. Don't get too excited however, an "en masse" joining plan is already being organized. Understand that the 1750 new union "brothers and sisters" won't be here to be "good union pilots", they'll vote/act in lockstep to frustrate, or otherwise impede any forward movement under your dictatorship. Not unlike a virus who invades the body and ultimately kills it.

Then my 75% dues compliance prediction by Christmas might be low! I love your latest spin. Show your "solidarity" be joining, after 8 months of sticking your heads in the ground and pretending usapa was just a bad dream. Invade us! PLEASE! Chaching! Chaching!

The worse thing for USAPA and it's actual goals is 100% West membership. I'm sure Bradford et.al. would much prefer a mix of objectors and the terminated.

Since usapa is all about representing ALL members, 100% West membership is the BEST thing usapa could hope for. The terminated? Who cares? Their gone.

If you think the West has been a problem for you now, just wait. You haven't seen anything yet.

Oh please, Brer Bear, DONT throw me in THAT briar patch! Metroal, your the gift that keeps on giving. snooper (AKA, Pete the Pilot)

 

[V1cut]

Hilarious. Mr. Metroyet has a plan. Well, we'll just see what we'll see. I suspect that "members" even in "good standing" who engage in "obstructive" behavior in violation of the C&BL's of USAPA will quickly find themselves "non-members" and hence with no voting rights anyway....but go ahead, keep the threats alive...it's good for a laugh, if nothing else.

 

[EastUS]

I've been reading this board long enough to see how the East came completly unglued after the Nic decision. This is after making an agreement to abide by a process and leave the determination to a third party. Hence the words, Final and Binding. I ask, why agree to a process with no intent to abide by the results? I can't decide which laws or FAR's to comply with because I do not agree with them. Obviously, there would be concequences for my non-compliance and disreguard for the law. I was raised to respect the law and a handshake could seal an agreement.

I want to see our dispute settled in court. Battling back and forth on this board is not going to settle the argument. I've watched it degenerate to a point of repeated warnings by the moderator are ignored. I am also amused how Piney Bob and Jim have become the target of the East's discontent.

I do agree wth you on one point EastUs, the jumpseat should not be used as a weapon in this dispute.

Points taken. Speaking just from my own perspective; I felt that the line pilots had been entirely disenfranchised by Alpa for many years prior to the nic event. I had wanted that "august body" of ivory-tower-dwelling illuminati excised for a very, very long time, but had, to my personal discredit, just felt that all were stuck with it/them. The insanely arrogant and fully condescending propoganda campaign from Alpa, as well as their cavalier contempt for the wishes of the line guys, finally made it possible for a group of very dedicated people to rally enough support to dump Alpa's sorry arse from the property. That the nic served as a mighty catalyst for some cannot be doubted. I can understand west perceptions that this was entirely about nic..but that's truly not the case for a great many of us. Many out east had become fully despondent, and essentially given up on the whole "union thing" before the folks who fired up USAPA came onto the scene. Alpa seemd to myself and a host of others, to be merely an incestuous little "sewing" circle-jerk of career "politicians"..divorced from much, if any, actual line flying, much less the concerns of line pilots...and apparently existed almost entirely for only their own selfish agendas. The "Holy Grail" within Alpa was eventual placement amongst herndon's upper echelon politicians/parasites, who were/are literally making themselves millionaires at line pilots' expense everywhere, while doing NOTHING to stem the continued erosion of the quality of life and general benefits of the the piloting profession....unless one counts such "benefits" as the wholesale surrenduring of pensions/wages/health coverage/work rules/etc...

That things have become so extremely toxic within the west-east scenario is extremely unfortunate. Sadly...It is what it is. IF there's much to be done at this point in time to alleviate the poisonous rancour currently in effect...I confess that I'm not presently seeing it, and have, although it took some goodly time and dedicated effort from the west....unfortunately become pretty much entirely polarized myself. I'm not particularly proud of that last...but again = things are what they are.

I'm of like mind with NYCbusdriver in that few or none out east really expected things to be fully resolved outside of courtroom proceedings. Let's hope for better conditions in the future for all concerned. Hopefully, however impossible it currently appears to even consider...there may come a time when we can actually work together at some level.

 

[grits]

I'm of like mind with NYCbusdriver in that few or none out east really expected things to be fully resolved outside of courtroom proceedings. Let's hope for better conditions in the future for all concerned. Hopefully, however impossible it currently appears to even consider...there may come a time when we can actually work together at some level.

I've can't say I disagree. After this fight is over, much like a boxing match, I would hope we could shake hands and move on. It may be a reach because of all the bitterness between our groups but one could hope.

 

[EastUS]

I've can't say I disagree. After this fight is over, much like a boxing match, I would hope we could shake hands and move on. It may be a reach because of all the bitterness between our groups but one could hope.

Indeed. One can hope, and the future's always unknown territory. On a personal level?..I'm quite sure that I'd be pleased to know many of you folks out west, should we actually meet and speak. On a professional level? = I'll always demonstrate proper courtesy to any/all within the workplace...inclusive of jumpseats of course.

However.....Umm...As a "Group"?...As far as I'm concerned..and I'm but one vote and minor voice...the west has fully worn out it's welcome for me. Merely note your pathetic little venemous "Virus" above, toss in a few taunts about being "A coward", (from individuals that are not only entirely unqualified to thump chests, but are most likely worthless/spineless/clueless young punks)...and multiply that by thousands of equally charming conversational chat encounters, toss in an occassional "Booyooshaka!"...."I want the captain seat..and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it"...flavor with a pinch of "Dude!", deny a few more commuters jumpseat priveleges....and certainly don't omit any "And we hate you guys".....well..etc.

As individuals?..Many of us would likely get along very decently. As some Holy Crusade group going forth, with the Sacred Banner of St Nic as the only inherent basis for supposed "Integrity"/etc?....I have not the slightest lingering concern, nor the least remaining shreds of empathy at any level.