AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[NoMoreKoolAid]

I do not want to pick at you, we seem to be striving for the same things. I was not at the meeting that you speak of obviously. I did have a friend that was. You might be technically correct that nobody asked Miss Graff to leave. What did happen was that someone in attendance suggested that the whole LEC resign. In the end that is what happened. There was a lot of emotion from everyone in that room if my facts are clear. There was name calling, finger pointing, and as was the case for quite a while nothing productive was getting accomplished.

I know everyone that was there may have different viewpoints but in the end the right thing took place.

Wrong again sir. The last thing I am saying on this. As my 42 year old mind remembers, the sitting President stood up and told the sitting vp (graf) and sec (horgan) the only way she was going to leave was if they quit as well. The sec said "fine by me" and in chimed vp with "if that’s what it takes" A new election was called. I know all involved have tried to make peace and why people want to pick at the scab is beyond me. One bad few months and it follows them around for lifetime. Really?

Also I might add far be it from me to tell anyone how to post or what "role" or "mask" to put on. It's clear you have way too much grasp and know the intricacies’ of a USairways flight attendant not to be one. My partner of 10 years can't understand some of this job but you as an outsider have all these sources and it just rolls off. Kind of like speaking French- You can always spot the natives.

 

[Iheartflying]

UMMMMM, I'm an 11 year Reserve F/A (junior) and in the last 3+ years I have NEVER been assigned into my off days....NEVER! This whole premise that this new Reserve T/A is predicated upon, "Reserves don't want to be forced to fly into their OFF days", is a false premise....a lie. Now it may happen once in awhile around the holidays, but it certainly is not something that happens with regularity.

The company wants this because they don't want to continue splitting trips.....THIS happens a lot and THIS costs them money.

I will vote NO on this contract because I do not want my choice of trips taken away from me. Being forced to take a 4-day domestic trip when a 3-day transatlantic is available WILL COST ME MONEY in the form of lost Transatlantic Pay, extra van tips, better per diem. MF cannot spin his way out of this fact!

Are you serious? I rarely ever post on this board but after seeing the junk you posted I had to log in and respond. I am a junior reserve and I get scheduled into my days off all the damn time. It's annoying because I make plans and then poof! those plans are gone because they had to move my days off. I have no life and I'm always at scheduling's whim. Maybe you've been lucky enough that you haven't had your days off moved but please...you do not speak for the rest of us at the bottom of the list.

 

[galley princess]

Wrong again sir. The last thing I am saying on this. As my 42 year old mind remembers, the sitting President stood up and told the sitting vp (graf) and sec (horgan) the only way she was going to leave was if they quit as well. The sec said "fine by me" and in chimed vp with "if that’s what it takes" A new election was called. I know all involved have tried to make peace and why people want to pick at the scab is beyond me. One bad few months and it follows them around for lifetime. Really?

Also I might add far be it from me to tell anyone how to post or what "role" or "mask" to put on. It's clear you have way too much grasp and know the intricacies’ of a USairways flight attendant not to be one. My partner of 10 years can't understand some of this job but you as an outsider have all these sources and it just rolls off. Kind of like speaking French- You can always spot the natives.

I agree. I tend to skip reading these posts because from the get-go they didn't ring true. Fine, you have the right, but there are a lot of agendas that bring themselves to the AFA thread, and posts that are obviously made by someone too familiar with US flying yet purporting to be a "friend" aren't something that I pay much attention to.

Also, I can corroborate No More Koolaid. The LEC did indeed say she would resign if everyone else did as well, so they did. It wasn't pretty then and it's no prettier now. All of the people who were involved are intelligent, and it serves no purpose to revisit the affair. Terri Graf is more than qualified to negotiate, should she get the chance to do so. There is an ocean to cross before that could happen.

I HOPE that US F/As get it together to vote this thing down, however I not naive enough to underestimate how these TAs are sold. Once this nonsense is put out, there will be contingent that is desperate for a raise, any raise and will vote for it, then deny doing so when the carnage begins. There will be many who will implore that F/As wake up and listen and really read it, and maybe they'll convince a few. Then there are those who know that we can do better and vote no.

The ones that scare me, really scare me are the ones who won't vote at all. Ten years of a bankruptcy contract and they won't vote on a new one?????

Continental F/as voted down $57/ hour.
Southwest make $60 / hour.

We work with zero tools, are subjected to some of the worst rules in the industry and regularly have to apologize for the ideas of sadists in cubicles.

We deserve no less than those who work for companies that value their employees. That ours doesn't just means we have to be stronger.

Vote for your future and your wasted ten years. As DP says "you get what you negotiate".

No one accepts the first offer.

 

[Onestep2flt]

Wrong again sir. The last thing I am saying on this. As my 42 year old mind remembers, the sitting President stood up and told the sitting vp (graf) and sec (horgan) the only way she was going to leave was if they quit as well. The sec said "fine by me" and in chimed vp with "if that’s what it takes" A new election was called. I know all involved have tried to make peace and why people want to pick at the scab is beyond me. One bad few months and it follows them around for lifetime. Really?

Also I might add far be it from me to tell anyone how to post or what "role" or "mask" to put on. It's clear you have way too much grasp and know the intricacies’ of a USairways flight attendant not to be one. My partner of 10 years can't understand some of this job but you as an outsider have all these sources and it just rolls off. Kind of like speaking French- You can always spot the natives.

I take what you said as truth as I was not there. I was not trying to start an argument. Mealy pointing out if you are going to be upset that someone got the facts wrong as I may have done as well, Be sure to tell the whole story. It tends to quash any rumors or stories that tend to get twisted about like this one apparently did. The way to defend your friend is by giving a complete account of what you saw. Just like I will ask my friend for verification of what they saw and heard. What I was led to believe is in the end everyone including the folks in attendance were in agreement that everyone should go. As I said before it sounds like Miss Graff did the right thing for ALL flight attendance. That I can applaud her for.

As far as being an insider, I do feel like it sometimes but am indeed on the outside. I have stated many, many times that have have lots of friends at your company as well as the other airlines that I fly. Sometimes when the opportunity arises we have get together as friends do. The stories were and are sometimes hard to follow but I have made it a point to get to know what my friends do. The last couple of years I guess I became more interested in the inner workings. I am not a mechanic but I can name some of the different checks the different aircraft in your fleet go through and why. When they were going through their vote for representation you will note that I posted to that board as well. I am not a pilot but I can tell you what an airway is, that the new procedure for taking the runway is now "Line up and wait". I also tried posting on that board until I realized I was in a hornets nest. I truly hope they work out their seniority differences. And I am not a flight attendant although I can name some of the "FAR'S", know how many flight attendants are minimum crew on most of your planes. I definitely do not understand your contract aside from what I have learned by way of listening to my friends complain the last couple of years. I understand what I do know because I made it my mission to know. In my job I follow the principle of the Chinese philosopher Sun Tsu in his writings on military strategy called the Art of War. You should know ones enemy! I must know what a competitor is doing or I die. I have worked this into my personal life with a variation. Know what your friends do. If you do this you can better understand who your friends are and why they do the things they do. Not to mention I am not totally lost at the dinner conversation. It has taken years to come close to knowing about what you do. I am not sure I could do it myself. I do not have the Patience. Which brings me to why I am here. My friends have educated me well about the plight they have been through. You are not just fighting your company but now your union. I see the unjust you have gone through and am just sharing ideas. Everything I post has been passed on to me. You are correct in the fact that I seem to know more about your job than some flight attendants. That is one of the main issues I have with the whole union thing. It seems that those in power don't want the flight attendant to be interested enough to know what is going on. My friends tell me all the time that flight attendants have no clue that you guys have people still on furlough.

Anyway, I will take it as a compliment that I know what is going on there. A lot of what I learned also came from reading here for the last ten years as well. I have no reason for masks. I do have an agenda though. To make sure that all of you are fairly represented. At the company I work for there would no longer be a position available for folks like your negotiating committee.

In the end what I wish to see is for you guys to right the ship. It is listing hard and all your captain is doing is moving your deck furniture around and telling you to trust him. I hope you don't trust him all the way to the bottom.

 

[Travelpro72]

Well Onestep, you shouldn't have made reference to the situation and twisted it further. The situation is 1. OVER and 2. just as NoMoreKookAid said. Now, moving along. Terry as great a negotiator as she'd be will never be appointed to the JNC due to the fact that EVERY SINGLE person in that MEC is afraid of her and her infinite knowledge. Ya see, knowledge is power and those in office now have NO IDEA what on Earth they are doing. They are as ignorant in admitting they are wrong as the company they are negotiating with. Terry has a passion and a love for this profession, her co-workers and an understanding of union business that the current yahoo crackers couldn't match on their best day. What Terry may have forgot they'll never know. 🙄 So, hmmm who would I put in to negotiate in place of Mike and Carol? How about my cat and two monkeys for starters? If that doesn't work my senile grandmother could always work. Really? Speaking of Really, what ever happened to OhReally and their Mystic monkey friend?

 

[Onestep2flt]

Well Onestep, you shouldn't have made reference to the situation and twisted it further. The situation is 1. OVER and 2. just as NoMoreKookAid said. Now, moving along. Terry as great a negotiator as she'd be will never be appointed to the JNC due to the fact that EVERY SINGLE person in that MEC is afraid of her and her infinite knowledge. Ya see, knowledge is power and those in office now have NO IDEA what on Earth they are doing. They are as ignorant in admitting they are wrong as the company they are negotiating with. Terry has a passion and a love for this profession, her co-workers and an understanding of union business that the current yahoo crackers couldn't match on their best day. What Terry may have forgot they'll never know. 🙄 So, hmmm who would I put in to negotiate in place of Mike and Carol? How about my cat and two monkeys for starters? If that doesn't work my senile grandmother could always work. Really? Speaking of Really, what ever happened to OhReally and their Mystic monkey friend?

Was not trying to twist anything. Did I possibly get the story wrong? It is possible that I misunderstood the story. That happens sometimes when you are dealing with second hand accounts. I was led to believe that someone in attendance had made the suggestion that they all resign. I had no reason not to believe the info I had as we all know the outcome. I will be a big person and admit my fault apologize to all involved and suggest as you did that we move on.

As far as your cat and the two monkeys that is a good change from what you have now. I really thought that Ohreally would be back. They promised!!!

 

[MAAMARCH04]

Are you serious? I rarely ever post on this board but after seeing the junk you posted I had to log in and respond. I am a junior reserve and I get scheduled into my days off all the damn time. It's annoying because I make plans and then poof! those plans are gone because they had to move my days off. I have no life and I'm always at scheduling's whim. Maybe you've been lucky enough that you haven't had your days off moved but please...you do not speak for the rest of us at the bottom of the list.

Yep, I'm serious.

I rarely post. This was my 59th post in just under 5 years. You've posted almost 4 times as much as me in much less time. I've never called your posts "junk".

You and I get 11 days off/month. Only 3 of those days are subject to the "whims" of Crew Scheduling. I never make important "plans" on those 3 days. That said, I've NEVER been assigned into those 3 days.

I'm not "lucky" as I've yet to hit The Power Ball.

I'll never "speak for you" ever again. Promise.

I stand by my post. It's true for me and every other reserve f/a that I'VE asked.

 

[Toothy Grin]

Geez. Don't get so upset, it comes with the territory here....you should read some the ire my posts have created....believe me, let your thoughts rrrrrrroll, keep on posting baby! Just remember, you can look at any one of us and say 'whah and you're as pure as driven snow?...mmm

Anyway, the reason I'm writing tonight is not to give you a pep talk MAAMARCH04 it is instead to find out what has or has not happened with this so called recall of Mike Flores and his sidekick whose name has slipped my mind at the moment, though not her image..........

I'm reading/skimming/sometimes yawning thru page after page of outrage this and inrage that and still find there's no meaty news about the ousting of Mike & Co. Plenty of commentary on Mike's spinabilities, but no real news on where the recall stands so far.

I'm also reading ALOT of petty squabbles and well you know how that works to get anything accomplished, don't you?

Worse than petty squabbles is fantasy. Please, do stop fantasizing about who would be good to step in or who wouldn't be good. Doing so pulls your attention away from the task at hand and as others read your dreams they inturn lose focus and think about how well or not well those mentioned will perform. Putting names out there now does two things: the first is it creates division. The second is it causes arguments before they need to happen.

So. Are you Easties recalling them, or not?

Am I wrong? I'm thinking a vote should have happened by now, yes?

Thanks frenemies!

Toothy 😀

 

[MyrnaMinkoff]

To valuesrok:


Are you seriously "beyond fuming" because I had the audacity to invoke THE most fundamental maxim of organized labor--seniority--something that has been missing from the lives of reserves (like me) who have been working under this intolerable system for the better part of a decade now? Is it your position that to prevent someone hired today from ever having a day off taken away, at twelve years service, it is incumbent upon me to sacrifice my seniority vis-a-vis trip selection? In my "career," a day off was taken from me exactly twice, and this even during years of existing in the darkest dregs of the system seniority list--and I mean YEARS without a glimmer of hope that the quick-calls would someday stop. Implicit in the idea of seniority is some measure of "dues-paying," i.e., you start at the bottom where you will likely be required to accept some of the worst assignments, but you do it because you have some assurance in a seniority-based system that conditions will improve incrementally over time as some retire and others take your place at the very bottom. We have been forced, yes FORCED!, to suspend those ideals indefinitely in the reserve kingdom because seniority amounts to nothing and Lord Parker doesn't cotton to the plebes exceeding a minimum guarantee. And I was under the impression that "golden days," the equivalent to "inviolable days," (you call it corn, we call it maize), were just that, and not subject to the caprices of the scheduling department. I have hope, though waning now, for a contract that is fair and live-with-able for everyone, but it all starts with unmitigated, unmolested, transparent seniority; why would any of us continue otherwise? Think of it...someday it could be you or me smearing pilfered Camembert onto a fancy wafer cracker as we survey our Europe-bound charges from the CSD command center, understanding, finally, the meaning of nirvana as we settle into a roomy reclining first-class seat for a three-hour nap.

Dismiss seniority at your own peril, because the day will come when you are "beyond fuming" that someone newly arrived on the property is soaking up Caribbean sunshine on a long overnight (well, perhaps we shouldn't kid ourselves, those layovers don't exist, but you know what I mean) while you're doing five legs a day for three days with short double Newark overnights, all because you were available for three days while she was only good for two. The thing is, it's not "either/or," because I don't like four-day trips doesn't mean that you will be forced to work on a scheduled day off. That's not the only solution to trip coverage, though management would have you believe that it is. In any case, allowing any exceptions to a seniority-based system is a slippery slope toward granting the company carte blanche to tweak and twist and manipulate the contract as they please.

 

[MAAMARCH04]

Geez. Don't get so upset, it comes with the territory here....you should read some the ire my posts have created....believe me, let your thoughts rrrrrrroll, keep on posting baby! Just remember, you can look at any one of us and say 'whah and you're as pure as driven snow?...mmm

Anyway, the reason I'm writing tonight is not to give you a pep talk MAAMARCH04 it is instead to find out what has or has not happened with this so called recall of Mike Flores and his sidekick whose name has slipped my mind at the moment, though not her image..........

I'm reading/skimming/sometimes yawning thru page after page of outrage this and inrage that and still find there's no meaty news about the ousting of Mike & Co. Plenty of commentary on Mike's spinabilities, but no real news on where the recall stands so far.

I'm also reading ALOT of petty squabbles and well you know how that works to get anything accomplished, don't you?

Worse than petty squabbles is fantasy. Please, do stop fantasizing about who would be good to step in or who wouldn't be good. Doing so pulls your attention away from the task at hand and as others read your dreams they inturn lose focus and think about how well or not well those mentioned will perform. Putting names out there now does two things: the first is it creates division. The second is it causes arguments before they need to happen.

So. Are you Easties recalling them, or not?

Am I wrong? I'm thinking a vote should have happened by now, yes?

Thanks frenemies!

Toothy 😀

LOL! Toothy Grin, I really wasn't upset at all.....I was rather detached when I wrote my last post. For realsies. ;-)

 

[Zarah]

I stand by my post. It's true for me and every other reserve f/a that I'VE asked.

Being assinged into your days off is done in inverse seniority order. Ask the very bottom. I am may of 2000 and PHL assinged me into INV days several times a year.

This topic really highlights the problems within the FA group. If it doesn't happen to me or anybody I ask or know, then it isn't a problem or doesn't happen.

I don't think it is done intentionallly, it is just a by product of a seniority based work schedule.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Being assinged into your days off is done in inverse seniority order. Ask the very bottom. I am may of 2000 and PHL assinged me into INV days several times a year.

This topic really highlights the problems within the FA group. If it doesn't happen to me or anybody I ask or know, then it isn't a problem or doesn't happen.

I don't think it is done intentionallly, it is just a by product of a seniority based work schedule.

You are so right. As someone is prone to say, we need something that is good for all F/A's.

The I've got mine at the top of the reserve list seems a bit hypocritical.

 

[Furloughd4now]

So where did "OhReally" go ... Y'all flying a 6 day RIO? {{{crickets}}} :blink:

 

[MAAMARCH04]

You are so right. As someone is prone to say, we need something that is good for all F/A's.

The I've got mine at the top of the reserve list seems a bit hypocritical.

Not sure if you're referring to me in the second line of your post, but since you followed up Zarah's post I assume you mean me. Both you and Zarah need to know that I'm at the bottom of the F/A seniority list in PHL.....you two are senior to me! That said, I'll say it again.....I have NEVER BEEN ASSIGNED INTO OFF DAYS!! The notion that this sort of thing happens all the time is a load of crock!

 

[I Was... Now US]

Is anyone else sick of OneStep's posts considering he/she is a "friend" of a crewmember and seems to be a know it all. Why don't you come work here and see what its really like rather than post based on what your friend is telling you what its like! Nothing personal just saying its easy to comment being on the outside and not actually living it.