AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[700UW]

Last time I checked anyone can post on any thread, if you want to restrict it start your own message board.

And its a legitimate question.

 

[flybynite]

The last time I checked....the company slid an unacceptable proposal across the table. How is that a failure of the JNC?

That's a failure of the "company" to negotiate in good faith.

Put the blame where it belongs.....at the door steps of the company.

 

[700UW]

Are you for real? Your way off base the current leadership is a failure and disgrace and yes they did negotiate with the company and agreed to it.

 

[Travelpro72]

The last time I checked....the company slid an unacceptable proposal across the table. How is that a failure of the JNC?

That's a failure of the "company" to negotiate in good faith.

Put the blame where it belongs.....at the door steps of the company.

What on Earth are you smoking? The company passed a proposal across the table that was beyond unacceptable BUT the JNC yes the JNC had negotiated concession after concession which was brought to all of us. They failed MISERABLY in their attempt to negotiate IN GOOD FAITH for the very members they are trying to feed this BS garbage to. So I WILL put the blame where it belongs and that falls with the Local councils. The very councils that keep Mike and Carol in their respective positions. Well WE the f/a group will take control as you see in CLT and soon in PHL. We WILL NOT be dictated to and TOLD what is and is not good for us. So you can continue to defend their actions but Mike and Carol have put themselves in a tight spot and are on the way out. We're not sitting around waiting on a NO vote only to send the same yahoo crackers in to jack it up even further. Nope! ! ! !

 

[galley princess]

If you don't like the contract....vote no. It's real simple and I'm not being sarcastic. Just vote No.

You don't have to recall anybody if you don't like what you see. Just vote No. You can't be any more clear than that.

Recalling the JNC is a lot of drama and a waste of time. A waste of resources that could be best used elsewhere.

By the way, the PBS system is on the AFA west website. Go have a look. It's not as bad as you may think. What disturbs me is that it's not been posted via E-Line as it should have been. The west f/a's have had this info for a while.

And just so you know.....PBS has been a known possibility in our contract for at least 5 years. Read your contract.

I understand that PBS was supposed to be in THIS contract, but the company refused to allocate the resources for a decent program, hence we stayed with the current system. I regard the imposition of LTO without PBS as one of the great tragedies of this hideous contract, but that is done.

I object to the idea that PBS is therefore a defacto part of a NEW contract. It was a CONCESSION in a bankruptcy contract. The fact that they refused to pay to implement it is their problem, not ours. Just like LTO not being linked to its implementation is our problem, and not theirs.

That's the other thing that bothers me about this negotiating team. Where were the surveys? Did they even ask F/As if we wanted PBS? It was part of a BANKRUPTCY contract and again, should have been a trigger if they wanted LTO, but wasn't linked in the verbiage.

Of course I will vote no. But as a dues paying member I have a right to raise concerns, and frankly, knowing our group, how busy everyone is commuting, flying high hours and trying to achieve some kind of life, I am grateful when someone stands up and brings out important information that I might have missed. The dismissal to "read my contract" is valid, however in most people's case wading through side letters and a long document is not in the constraints of a busy day. It IS within the duties of a union to bullet important parts of an agreement, unfortunately this union likes to shove them under a bush.

This board is informational. I come here to learn. I don't mind being slammed, but provide some valid information while you do it.

I was unaware of this board when the bankruptcy contract was released. Did anyone outline how LTO would work, flag that it had no trigger and could be enacted unilaterally? If not, imagine if someone had and it went viral. We might not have had the same result.

To that end, does anyone know how the bidsheet is supposed to fit into PBS? I think that we are supposed to retain some kind of remnant of it?

If this mess comes to a vote, hopefully it will be voted down. However, it is a colossal waste of time to simply sit back and let it come to a vote, especially when it is so out of touch with what the membership envisioned for a new contract. It has been five years! Yes, the blame lies with the obstructionist opponent too, but we EXPECT that. We do not expect our negotiating team to crumble in the face of it. It seems like in an effort to get an agreement or some kind of movement they abandoned key components of how our system works and what should be retained. They should have walked away and said, "call us when you're ready to deal."

But, as many have pointed out to me, apparently that would have meant returning to the line. Flying. Umm, what we all do. Negotiators should not be people who don't want to do the job that they are negotiating for.

 

[Career Reserve]

Problem is....the company isn't nervous as hell. In this base, they know Cathy quite well and she will not get any wiggle room on anything. Management here does not respect her ( in fact...they detest her ) and they have reason why. They will be hard line with her.

Which can and will present a problem for our f/a's.


Now she can fight 'til the cows come home but she will have no impact. She will come up against a wall. Just my opinion...but one that should have been listened to.
.

At least she has/will continue to fight for the f/a's which is MORE than her predecessor has done! Might that be the reason Cathy won by a very large margin? 🙄

 

[AstroLounge]

and when they find out she is not the Messiah but just plain nuts they will string Cathy up in 3-4 years too. The company is laughing their butts off at this whole situation. While Ann needed to go, Cathy was not the answer. Good luck to all in CLT.

Messiah!? More like The AntiChrist. Tictocktictock.........let the Clock Begin. There's a phrase "I can hardly wait for Your Demise because I want to be The FIRST to Piss on Your Grave!". Start drinking fluids and RETAIN your fluids..........The Upcoming TRAINWRECK will require LOTS of Liquid to put Out The Fire(s). And I am NOT playing the role of Nostradamus. I just know Crazy/Nuts/Delirious when I see it.........boy I have a sudden 'fascination' with clocks..... 🙄

 

[Travelpro72]

Cathy may not be the answer for many but if she is willing to fight the fight and remove Mike and Carol she'll have accomplished more doing that than Anne ever did while holding seat. While Anne was in office was she willing to recall Mike and Carol? What was her voting record? We all know the answer so if I had to choose between the two for the will of the membership I'd go with Cathy. Simply to rid us of Mike and Carol. If Cathy proves to not fill the bill and some of what we have heard comes to pass she'll find herself recalled like local 70.

Oh and Galley Princess....that was a GREAT post.

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

I understand that PBS was supposed to be in THIS contract, but the company refused to allocate the resources for a decent program, hence we stayed with the current system. I regard the imposition of LTO without PBS as one of the great tragedies of this hideous contract, but that is done.

I object to the idea that PBS is therefore a defacto part of a NEW contract. It was a CONCESSION in a bankruptcy contract. The fact that they refused to pay to implement it is their problem, not ours. Just like LTO not being linked to its implementation is our problem, and not theirs.ny have pointed out to me, apparently that would have meant returning to the line. Flying. Umm, what we all do. Negotiators should not be people who don't want to do the job that they are negotiating for.

That's the other thing that bothers me about this negotiating team. Where were the surveys? Did they even ask F/As if we wanted PBS? It was part of a BANKRUPTCY contract and again, should have been a trigger if they wanted LTO, but wasn't linked in the verbiage.

Seniority is all we have left at this airline - but we have come to a point where there has to be a balance.
There was never any "OUTRAGE" over LTO being implemented without PBS - because it didn't affect or harm the lives of the majority or most senior.
Simple as that. You just got thrown under the bus - as a sacrificial lamb - "it's all about seniority."

When the company imposed the 21% across the board pay reduction - I was still in PHW - people were hoarding trips and overflying like crazy (not unlike now). You would be watching catcrew and you could see a trip open up - then see it picked up by somebody senior not only overflying but blatantly overflying.

Paging Stuart in the International Crew room - only 150 hours this month - however will you survive ????

US Airways has always eaten their young, pilots and flight attendants.
Unfortunately, we continue to shrink and as we shrink (post merger), we outsource more and more to the west, and the regional airlines. It is NOW starting affect more and more. But where is the outrage??? Alas, thrown under the bus because again "it's still all about seniority - just now the lack thereof of about 30 years."

But surprisingly enough, It still doesn't affect the top 15-20 percent (and they can still hold weekends off too). Weird - guess it is like the economy.

I went back and forth with our union leadership regarding the legality (or lack thereof) of implementation of LTO without PBS (I never wanted it either), because PBS was campaigned during the roadshows and F/As (the one's that voted) voted on that fact (or didn't).

F/As were still hood winked because the company never got it's act together and never implemented PBS - due to cost and a suitable vendor.

Anyway - since it didn't affect the majority - it was implemented without a fight. Sound Familiar? Again under the bus little sheep. Bahhh - Bahhh

Yet the union again DID nothing. Except the more important job recalling Teddy because she availed herself to one of the VFLR, and implemented a power grab on the MEC bt Mike Flores effectively keeping Teddy from ever dethroning Pat Friend as President of AFA INTL. You know the same Pat Friend that took a VFLR from UAL.
Seems PAT could still conduct union business while on VFLR, but Teddy couldn't?

Seems our current union leadership keeps coming to the proverbial gunfight - armed only with a knife.

Let survey the membership for a change and find out what THEY want. It's not a cost issue - because it all can be done on the internet with security protocols in place.

Continuing to defer by default to few individuals on the negotiating committee for their opinion (OUT OF TOUCH with the membership) is insane.

It is OUR union after all - so let start acting like it.
Let your negotiators know just exactly what we expect from them and what WE as a membership want negotiated.

Remember - what just happened in CLT is the first step in effectively throwing the individuals under the bus that sorely deserve it the most. Bahhh Bahhh

It's about time.

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

Deleted by original poster

 

[Twicebaked]

If you don't like the contract....vote no. It's real simple and I'm not being sarcastic. Just vote No.

You don't have to recall anybody if you don't like what you see. Just vote No. You can't be any more clear than that.

Recalling the JNC is a lot of drama and a waste of time. A waste of resources that could be best used elsewhere.

By the way, the PBS system is on the AFA west website. Go have a look. It's not as bad as you may think. What disturbs me is that it's not been posted via E-Line as it should have been. The west f/a's have had this info for a while.

And just so you know.....PBS has been a known possibility in our contract for at least 5 years. Read your contract.

Why is everyone's answer to the problem.. just vote NO!!! It's like building a house.. while it is being built you know that the foundation isn't stable.. but, you just keep going til it's built.. NOW, you can't live in it (voting NO).. Well, if you would have fixed the foundation problem in the first place (JNC) you wouldn't have to tear it done.....

Why should we have to go that far???? The MEC is NOT listening to you! They are waisting your money! You have more room to improve on it NOW than you will voting it down and sending it back!!! You can move feet now... only inches later....

Don't be so stupid people....

 

[Travelpro72]

Twice that is a great way of putting it. Now if others would just understand that. 🙄

 

[Twicebaked]

Twice that is a great way of putting it. Now if others would just understand that. 🙄

Just vote No Trav! Just quit if you don't like it Trav! That is eveyone's answer...

Let me ask everyone this.... How's that recall coming??? LMAO Having a rough time with it are you? Well, if you didn't vote them in in the first place, this wouldn't be an issue now would it! POINT... See how difficult this is? See how difficult it will be to get things changed that were put into a closed contract that was already put out to the membership for a vote...

Did you vote no? Well, what did you not like? Well, if the JNC doesn't know what you want now.. how will they know what you didn't like that made you vote NO???

Again, people STOP THE MESS BEFORE IT GOES TO VOTE!!! STOP THE JNC BEFORE IT GOES TO VOTE!!!! STOP THE JNC BEFORE THEY DESTROY YOUR CARRER FOR ANOTHER 5 PLUS YEARS!!!!

Simply voting NO.. isn't the answer.... Just voting NO is the epitome of apathy!!! Show you care (recall) and fix your union now!!!

 

[Onestep2flt]

Yea, I don't understand the "just vote no crowd". While true that is one of the options, your voting record from the past does not support this. Once a tentative agreement is reached people tend to get all warm and fuzzy cause the process if finally done. Plus, people tend to believe the alternative will be worse.

Fix the leak now before you drown! While the Charlotte election brings the hope of some change, it is only the first battle in the war. There is no guarantee that your new leader will be able to accomplish anything she promised. Hope they will at least make an attempt to set things in motion for change, but you are going to need more traction than just saying no.

 

[Twicebaked]

Yea, I don't understand the "just vote no crowd". While true that is one of the options, your voting record from the past does not support this. Once a tentative agreement is reached people tend to get all warm and fuzzy cause the process if finally done. Plus, people tend to believe the alternative will be worse.

Fix the leak now before you drown! While the Charlotte election brings the hope of some change, it is only the first battle in the war. There is no guarantee that your new leader will be able to accomplish anything she promised. Hope they will at least make an attempt to set things in motion for change, but you are going to need more traction than just saying no.

"like"

Moderators.. you have a "report" button... let's get a "like" button!! Hell, we can always move the entire FORUM to facebook... lol