IAM Fleet Service topic 11/19-

[mike33]

Wonder if MC and NH will have a civilized discussion with these guys in phx? It might be a good time for them to lay some ground work to get the membership behind them.

If I were to somehow gain an audience with DP, I would ask if he even knows about the so called, new attendance policy.

"Sir, what would this company hope to obtain by throwing this at its Fleet and Customer Service employees. Was it that the exsisting policy wasn't working? If it wasn't why? Were the Managers not able to keep up with it or were they so busy with all the changes thrown at them, that attendance was a low priority on their list of things to do.

OR, was HR not able to make the ultimate decisions if people stay or go for being held accountable in lawsuits? I think the HR department figured it was an easy fix for them.

Here you have a system thrown at you with really no regard to peoples lives and what it takes sometimes to juggle work with family life in order to make it work.

And last but not least, its in violation of our contract ( yes our, yours and ours. US reps signed it and so did ours ).

?? Maybe you don't know about it, do you ?? Ah Ha!..I smell something here..............I guess change doesn't always get approved from the Top.......unless I'm mistaken It should.

Once Again...........How does this improve morale so this company moves forward..........IT DOESN'T"

 

[The Bagfather]

Good post Mike. I think we both know that DP was
not adaquately imformed of the ramifications of this
cheep and hairbrained concoction.

I hope DP has the courage to at least appologize for the
position he has put his local managers and supervisors in.
That would be more important to me than if he appoligised to
us. We've go our union

Also I hope he has some hard words for the idiots that he
listened to about the feasablity of this. Maybe the biggest
appology should come from Big Al.

Meanwhile let's all support MC and NH on their meeting.

Jester: I think you should enter into fray by becoming more
a part of our union. We could use the support. You might
find out that you had something substative to add.

Thanks BF

 

[Jester]

Jester: I think you should enter into fray by becoming more a part of our union. We could use the support. You might find out that you had something substative to add.

BF,

I appreciate the kind words, but I have also been on both sides of the labor/management equation in my occupational past, so I am sympathetic to both sides in their respective positions, thus I am uncertain as to my complete, uncompromising, unequivocal support for either side. As such, I would be a less than desirable member of either management or organized labor.

My statistics professor many years ago was fond of saying, "If one cannot quantitate it, one cannot prove it." I suspect this new absentee policy is a company attempt to quantitate employee sick and late calls by assigning a point value and progressive levels of discipline. While reasonable people can argue the standards and the point scale, I would think even the most fervent union member would support a system by which management subjectivity and favoritism to be greatly reduced. Is this not one of the reasons given as to why people should vote to be represented by an union?

Personally, I think there are more pressing issues than people calling in sick and being late, but they are not as easy to fix. People disappearing from their assigned work areas, people dodging work, people sleeping on the job, people improperly loading planes, people being "tipsy" from the prior night of drinking or people just doing a half-ass job, in general. How does one "quantitate" someone doing a half-ass job or "resting eyes on the job" or avoiding work? However, it is easier to just have a computerize system count sicks and lates, generate a report, and take corrective action. Management is looking for a simple, black and white measurement, one for which cannot be argued -- it is an easy way out to appear pro-active instead of fixing the real problems.

So Analyzes Jester.

 

[b737200]

It's typical of management to change the rules thinking
it will force the employee to not call off during holiday periods,
but what they don't understand is the commitment to family and
tradition.
So what, I get two points for calling off over Christmas, I'll get the excuse
from a doctor and move on. I know the local manager will get a chubby
for feeling like a god when he tries to intimidate me, but my children
are going to see thier dad on Christmas morn.

You see when the company came up with the occurrance system,
did that stop the employee from taking the three day weekend? NO,
HE JUST TOOK THE WHOLE WEEK INSTEAD. When the company went to half
pay on the first four sick days, did that deture anyone? NO, you just worked a swap
or ot to make it up in the same pay period.
Bottom line, just leave us alone and save yourself some money.

 

[robbedagain]

there a test that i dont think should really be included with all the other tests--the time and attendance crap. what kind of excuse is it for mgmt to force the employees to take a dumb test like that? i sure hope the union fights that one in it says if youre late for work due to an accident, how isit your fault??? i cant imagine mgmt has to do a test like that

 

[mike33]

" Hey look Doug and Al. The bottom line is that this system is Bias. If I don't have a time clock at my station, I can walk in anytime I want unnoticed. Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! it works well for WN. So What? they also have the (-) point system that rewards if you come to work on time and have good attendance!

We can either fight each other on every issue we encounter or we can talk to each other ( through our IAM Reps ) and move this Employee relationship to a different level. The choice is really yours because after all, you have an idea of what the ultimate goal is. If you keep us locked up in this Quagmire of rules and regulations, then we will have accomplished nothing towards your ultimate goal......................

By the way, the new fleet uniforms look great in my personal opinion..........."

" Lets see if management can make the new uniform policy stick "
THE END

 

[The Bagfather]

What I would like to know is whether or not any of the companies
accountents came up with a dollor figure as to what the new
policy would save the company. When put in monitory terms to me
it becomes even more obvious that this is an item which can only
be delt with in formal negotiations.

I think it was robbed that was complaining about that test. Well
I totally agrees with you. In my opinion it was demeaning.
The biggest problem with it was you HAD to implicitly agree with
it by saying that you understood it. I understood it well enough
but not in any sence they had in mind. If I'd been thinking I would
have refused to fill in the last answer. And then gone to the supervisor
and got him to sign me off on the test with my protest. Either
that or he would have gone forth with the discipline that they said
they would give out (trade jail). Then It would go to a greivence.

Now the reality is that I would never go to all that trouble. So what's
going to happen with this. Probably some sort of compramise like
P REZ said..Some additions like negative points or supervisor descrection.

Overall it will probably be a loss for us. A big loss? Probably not. But
just the cost to our union to fight this has been cost enough.

I'm sure a vast portion of employees regarded
this as something they had no control over and simply concluded to
themselves that they either deserved this treatment or saw no
great significance in it. IMO this needs to change. From what I read here,
things are beginning to change. Thanks BF

 

[freedom]

i've been thinking about next year .... and as i think more and more about it , i wonder if this isn't a move more against you on the east coast than those of us who are former AWA agents ... while some of us might end up with a few days banked next year i know it's not uncommon for hard core east people to have upwards of months of sick time ...

What if our company started to fail ? well personally i'd try and burn as much of my sick time as possible ... i'd take it right to the edge , because , if we were to go out of business you know your not going to get paid back for the sick days you already have banked ...

With this new policy the company could definitely keep a lid on people trying to burn everything before the place shuts down ..


anyways , just a theory ..

 

[mike33]

Hey Freedom

Some union guys will be in Phx on Monday ( MC / NH ). You should introduce yourself and talk to them when they come around. It would be good for you. I did and they had a lot of good info.

 

[necigrad]

It's typical of management to change the rules thinking
it will force the employee to not call off during holiday periods,
but what they don't understand is the commitment to family and
tradition.
So what, I get two points for calling off over Christmas, I'll get the excuse
from a doctor and move on. I know the local manager will get a chubby
for feeling like a god when he tries to intimidate me, but my children
are going to see thier dad on Christmas morn.

Thanks, it's attitudes like that that have brought the points system, in part. You don't HAVE to work on Christmas at US Airways. Drop the day, trade it, take your vacation, plan ahead and bid for those days off. You work in an industry that does not get holidays off. Live with it, adjust to it, or got work at WalMart. They're closed most of Christmas. I think McDonalds is closed on holidays too.

 

[b737200]

Thanks, it's attitudes like that that have brought the points system, in part. You don't HAVE to work on Christmas at US Airways. Drop the day, trade it, take your vacation, plan ahead and bid for those days off. You work in an industry that does not get holidays off. Live with it, adjust to it, or got work at WalMart. They're closed most of Christmas. I think McDonalds is closed on holidays too.

It's not attitude, You must be from the west and single, no kids, family doesn't do
much for the holidays and you'll probably be at the airport to pick up
the measley extra 8 hours.
This place was actually a good place to work years back, but the mgmt keeps
shoving unnegotiated policy down our throats, when in fact, if they would just
leave the work group alone , the cost savings would be much more.

I worked the holidays when you got time and one half, but it's not worth trading
for when afour year old comes down the stairs and sees that tree and presents
from Santa

 

[necigrad]

You're dead on that I'm from the West (not that I can see how that would make a difference) single and with no kids. Any yes, I am planning on picking up extra hours, in part for the money, and in part to let people have the time off to spend with their family. But that's still doesnt' change anything. This policy of the holiday period is due to people that improperly use their sick time. That causes problems in this industry. Now if I'm legitimatly sick should I be penalised for calling in sick on Christmas so you can spend it with your family? HTF is THAT right? I get screwed over for your family?

 

[b737200]

You're dead on that I'm from the West (not that I can see how that would make a difference) single and with no kids. Any yes, I am planning on picking up extra hours, in part for the money, and in part to let people have the time off to spend with their family. But that's still doesnt' change anything. This policy of the holiday period is due to people that improperly use their sick time. That causes problems in this industry. Now if I'm legitimatly sick should I be penalised for calling in sick on Christmas so you can spend it with your family? HTF is THAT right? I get screwed over for your family?

Friend,
It all comes with maturity.
One day you will stand in the shoes of others, Fatherhood will change you.
The point I'm trying to make is ......................... If the company would leave the work
rules alone, stop pixxxng everyone off, morale would go up and
along with that also production.
I've worked for others so they could be with family also, I'm not on sided.
But the bottom line is, don't change the rules in the middle of the game.
I've also seen the CEO and other corporate officers out working with the troops
on Christmas day at different stations ( driving tugs and loadiong bags).
That's showing respect to the work force, but you won't get that from the leaders
we have now.

 

[mike33]

I was going to leave this alone, but I have just one last word. ( Really ) The chain of command was bypassed and we shall see how it turns out. Stay together and don't let this situation stray you too far from the real truth. A.H. for some reason doesn't like Customer service or Fleet. It's evident in all the Neg before, during, and after BK. Stay together. Contract Neg are not that far away. A.H. is a Manager turned corporate labor lawyer.

I don't know what caused such disrespect, but maybe some in corporate don't celebrate the Holidays. I can't and will not believe that sick calls on Holidays bring damage to our flight schedule.

Maint got it right....Take this Policy and...Stick IT !!!

 

[giantfan]

Sorry to be off topic....
But why the h*ll is the auto industry bailout so unnerving to me? Why are the big 3 so against bankruptcy?....there was some loud mouth on TV this morning saying that unless we have a national healthcare policy in effect we should not let them go bk? ...where were these loudmouths when half the entire airline industry was going bk over the last 7 years?


fwiw...these big 3 were the same leaders lobbying Congress the last several years to negate auto emission standards and let them build their SUV's & F350's....and now they come to Congress (in private jets) pleading for mercy...give me a break....

so says giantfan.....


btw...how 'bout them Giants?!