IAM Fleet Service topic

[JoeDirt]

Does anybody really believe that CLT is going to be downsized or whatever the latest prediction is? I'm ready to transfer there and show these old timers how to toss some bags
But seriously folks, CLT isn't going anywhere, right?

Doing it
Come on over to the Carolinas. This "old timer" will give you a run for your money tossing bags. Seriously I have no fear that CLT is going anywhere. Merger or not. UA has wanted a hub in the southeast for a while and we would fit right into their goals.

 

[freedom]

freedom,
"Theres normal activity with being put on furlough and then there's the sixty day rule , and from what i've been able to gather , ours it the only MAJOR airline that has this , and it is NOT normal , nor is it a good thing for the people who fall to it , as i can tell from the way robbed again cries about it on here ."

been furloughed worked in 4 citys. so don't go down that road son. YOU have no idea what your talking about . will clt be hit

H*ll I don't know . but since UA has been courting US for 10 yrs trying to get a SE (that would be southeast ) HUB . to compete with

DL and has been wanting to lotion up to get in the carribean (sp) market . I highly doubt CLT will be downsized . but then again who

knows. As far as the 60 day rule goes. for the 10th time. IF you get layed off in 6 months and are on furlough for 6 months

and then come back . YOUR first check your going to say WTF WHY am I making 9.00 an hour . I have 5 years with the company

WTF happened. "well mr freedom if you read your contract that language applied to you "PRIOR TO OEI" ." well what does that me

well sir your screwed.

and lastly . 1. quite taking other posters post and twisting it out of context and making things up 2. You obviously don't understand

contract language and how it will be applied so be man enough to just let it go. because like I said before you suck a politics .

and you trying to spin things is laughable. !

Actually O-man , most of that post applies to YOU … why is it your great leader tim nelson has been so very quite about the 60 day rule ?? Well now TIM , is O-man right and I’m wrong about this ????

I doubt it … I think it’s YOU o-man who don’t want to see this very simple phrase

· Effective on date of ratification, the 60 day rule will be eliminated for any furloughs that occur after that date.


O-man , I can take that ONE line of text to any court and run wild with it … it’s simple and it’s CLEAR CUT….

Why put EFFECTIVE ON DATE OF RATIFICATION , if that was not the INTENT of those who signed it and put it into print ???

When is the ratification day ? Why it’s may 8th 2008 ….


You see O-man , I think you realize that if your wrong , and I’m RIGHT , I can run WILD up and down east fleet with this upcoming merger throughout your ranks ….

Anyone with less than 15 years in your major HUBS will ask themselves on the 8th … well different things could happen to me with this merger , and one of them is that I could go to furlough … do I want to go to furlough after working here for 5,10, or X amount of years and lose all of my time ?

The answer will inevitably be NO … and so they will vote YES ….


Sorry brother ,I’m not TRYING to take the steak and lobster out of your mouth … it’s just this is all too much blood to have on fleets hands again …. The 60 day rule already massacred once , I see no reason we should repeat that incidence …. Let us join together and put a STAKE through the heart of the sixty day clause and be free of it once and FOR ALL

 

[Tim Nelson]

I guess in your world the arbiters decision doesn’t exist ..

Huh?
My world doesn't matter but in Hemenway's world, the CIC was a 'must have'. I'm not sure what could be more convincing.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[freedom]

Huh?
My world doesn't matter but in Hemenway's world, the CIC was a 'must have'. I'm not sure what could be more convincing.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

yawn :closedeyes:

if i really wanted to discredit you i could just go back to the threads before the COC was announced and just rip you up with your own posts with you saying this was a "slam dunk" .."shinny new hitches" etc... oh i almost forgot one "HUGE BACK PAY CHECKS!!!!"


luckly for you i'm too lazy to do that ....

(my point there , in case it wasn't clear , is that your discredited when it comes to predictions on ANYTHING having to do with the COC … )

 

[necigrad]

Don't think for a moment that this current crap bk contract won't get dragged out for yearsssssssssssssssss to come if this gets voted down.....and when they roll you into the east, hope you have your resume done up all pretty like.........

Ummm... Apparantly even Canale is no longer saying that West can get just rolled into the East contract without a vote.

Look we have 3 billion in cash , or less now i think .. at the current rate of burn our doors would have to shut in three years give or take a few months ..

OK, we have 3 billion, or thereabouts. Everyone agrees on that. But "the current rate of burn"??? That changes DAILY! A bad jet stream can affect our profits and operations. One quarter is not a pattern. And if you look at one YEAR we're ADDING to that 3 billion, so you have no sensical argument.

September contract=crappy
January offer= crappy (union walked away)
this T/A= crappy

There is no history whatsoever of improving this T/A....both the co. & union have said....this is it...

Pretty good summary. But here's how I look at it. The Company and union have both said they won't be back. And then they canme back. The company has said they will only do "cost neutral", but they gave MX a raise. They both lie to play us. Don't fall for it.

Secondly on that, we've has a UA BoD member negotiating for us who has a Federally mandated duty to protect the shareholders of UA AND our rights as well. You cannot do both right now. It's impossible to negotiate against yourself. He's got to toe a line, and he's chosen to balance on the UA side, I assume because the UA shareholders are more likely to present a quality lawsuit against him. Once Canale is gone we will negotiate AGAIN, but this time with a team that represents US Fleet, not UA.

there are other things guaranteed by voting NO , and that’s losing members to the sixty day rule , you can dance around it as much as you like , but we may lose hundreds to thousands of members , case in point , in robbed's station 30 and 40 year guys went down …

Most of the East cuts have already taken place. I don't dowbt that there will be some East layoffs, but it will be FAR less then if West goes under this contract. All the cities on the list in the TA WILL be gone when January 1, 2011 rolls around.

Moving on to the West coast I also have too many hubs out there , someone needs to go , but now I’m paying attention to my costs again … DEN and SFO are expensive to keep , everything from landing charges to senior employees .. But if I look at PHX , it’s employee’s on average are not senior therefore I save a TON more money by keeping them , also the airport has far less weather problems than DEN and SFO …. By getting rid of either DEN or SFO , I can also pretend to look as if I’m cutting this company back in a fair manner .. It’s win win for me ..

Now on to the field stations and the mini hubs , when it comes to fleet service , I will simply try to eliminate the east coast wherever possible , with the west , I’ll do so when I feel it’s cost effective as that most of the workers in the west field stations don’t even have more than 5 years in , it’s still cost effective to keep them … With our smaller mini hubs , ill try to reduce them below 69 flights daily and then contract them out … either way I will be saving millions upon millions of dollars .

WTF are you smoking? First off, while PHX has better weather then DEN or SFO it is NOT perfect. One drop of rain hitting the tower windows shuts the airport down. And when monsoon season hits it makes a mess of the whole system. By your logic LAS would be far better then PHX.

Second, your strategy proposal makes no sense either. Why seperate East and West stations? We'll all be on the same contract. Many of the "West" outstations have very senior people. And in the TWU CBA YOU CANNOT OUTSOURCE! Let me say it again since you ignore this fact in your pro TA ramblings:

THE COMPANY CANNOT OUTSOURCE ANY WEST STATION ON THE TWU CBA!!!

 

[freedom]

Doing it ,
If you listen to an out of control frustrated PHX worker then YES clt will be gone.

but since I work there .. let me shed some light . 35 upgrades and hiring through the end of jun .

what does that tell ya.

and freedom before you try and twist that . Usually prior to a merger the airlines do what is called a HIRING FREEZE.

doesn't seem to be the case this time around . at least not in the SE(southeast) ..So doing it . bring it on . hope you like some

good down hope BBQ . Roa has the inside track .

Quite the contrary …

I’m completely in control , in fact I’d say I’m on FIRE today ….


Your Boy tim stated a many posts back that CLT could be in danger …. So don’t take my NOBODY word for it .. Ask your boy tim …..


O-man , every station , every hub has had upgrades … we have new paint jobs on the planes too , but that won’t stop our company from parking the planes and axing the workers …

THIS MERGER IS TO CUT CAPACITY …. Listen well to doug parkers words in the 2008 1st Q video ….

You can ignore the freight train , but it’s still going to roll over you .

 

[Tim Nelson]

CIC UPdate: CIC

In a winning cause the CIC is worth $21.43
In a losing cause the CIC netted the following in September:
10 Holidays, Holiday pay, shift differ, pension increase, full sick pay.

That was in a losing cause where the company decided that it didn't even need to bother taking it out in the America West merger.

Now, the company attorneys have 'flipped like a pancake' and told Hemenway it is a 'must have'. At this time, we know this is because of the United merger. So the CIC has come back full circle and we are the only group that has held on to it. Remember, in a losing cause it kicked more butt than this contract.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[freedom]

Ummm... Apparantly even Canale is no longer saying that West can get just rolled into the East contract without a vote.

{so on and so forth }

THE COMPANY CANNOT OUTSOURCE ANY WEST STATION ON THE TWU CBA!!!

that’s nice Necigard … PHX will STILL vote yes , LAS will still vote at LEAST 50% yes and I hear several of our field stations on the list will also be joining us in a YES vote . We are moving forward …

The battle lies in the EAST …

Now the east guys can buy into the notion that their going to be FINE and it’s going to be love and sunshine until they roll into the UA contract ….

But I’m going to try and tackle them before they sleep walk themselves over the cliff again ….

You have over a year and half before UA has to deal with you , during that time your OPEN to being cut to shreds with your HORRIBLE scope and your sixty day rule….

That light your seeing at the end of the tunnel could be the end of your careers if you don’t vote carefully .

 

[freedom]

CIC UPdate: CIC

In a winning cause the CIC is worth $21.43
In a losing cause the CIC netted the following in September:
10 Holidays, Holiday pay, shift differ, pension increase, full sick pay.

That was in a losing cause where the company decided that it didn't even need to bother taking it out in the America West merger.

Now, the company attorneys have 'flipped like a pancake' and told Hemenway it is a 'must have'. At this time, we know this is because of the United merger. So the CIC has come back full circle and we are the only group that has held on to it. Remember, in a losing cause it kicked more butt than this contract.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

You just don’t know when your beaten do ya ?


GEEZ .. Now I’m going to have to go BACK through the threads and use your own NUERMOUS quotes against you to show our brothers and sisters just how silly your prognostications about the COC are …..

Why did you have to do that , I told you I was lazy …. Geeez…..

I’ll be back in an hour or so …. Hopefully sooner ….

Peace…

 

[Tim Nelson]

yawn :closedeyes:

if i really wanted to discredit you i could just go back to the threads before the COC was announced and just rip you up with your own posts with you saying this was a "slam dunk" .."shinny new hitches" etc... oh i almost forgot one "HUGE BACK PAY CHECKS!!!!"


luckly for you i'm too lazy to do that ....

(my point there , in case it wasn't clear , is that your discredited when it comes to predictions on ANYTHING having to do with the COC … )

yawn :closedeyes:

if i really wanted to discredit you i could just go back to the threads before the COC was announced and just rip you up with your own posts with you saying this was a "slam dunk" .."shinny new hitches" etc... oh i almost forgot one "HUGE BACK PAY CHECKS!!!!"


luckly for you i'm too lazy to do that ....

(my point there , in case it wasn't clear , is that your discredited when it comes to predictions on ANYTHING having to do with the COC … )

Actually Canale thought it was a win also. Things don't end up in arbitration unless they have merit.
At any rate, even in a losing case it netted 10 holidays, holiday pay, shift differ, pension increase, full sick pay. I'd say that's a good start why Hemenway wants it out. In a winning cause it is worth $21.43. Either way, it's much better than this goofy contract that got 'nuttn' for it since we had United on our side of the table.

The Big Picture

Click the above link and distribute 'everywhere'
regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[mike33]

. Article 7 (Seniority) Integrated Seniority list will apply to all Employees no later than OEI.
Effective on Transition date amend CBA as follows:



Can anyone tell me when TRANSITION DATE MIGHT BE ???????

Here's my reading of article 7:

· Effective on date of ratification, the 60 day rule will be eliminated for any furloughs that occur after that date.

I agree it does get eliminated on ratification date BBBBUUUTTTT !!!!!! That bullet point only applies after " TRANSITION DATE "
So when is transition date?

I. Transition Dates. In general, the America West Employees in the Fleet Service craft or class
(“West Employeesâ€￾) will transition to the existing US Airways/IAM Collective Bargaining
Agreement, as amended (the “CBAâ€￾) within 30 days of ratification of this Agreement (the
“Transition Dateâ€￾), except where transition dates for specific CBA articles are otherwise set
forth in Attachment A hereto.

SO....Transition date is within 30 days of ratification.......EXCEPT for specific articles in ATTACHMENT A:


ATTACHMENT A

Below are the terms for the transition of West Employees to specific CBA Articles. Where the
Transition Date specified herein is prior to Operational Employee Integration (OEI) the application of
such provision will be separate between East and West Fleet Service Employees until the date of
Operational Employee Integration (OEI). Additionally certain modifications to the East Agreement are
also included and will become effective as described in each section below.


It's called back spin logic.......some will get a headache as Freedom has and believe the 60 day applies on Ratification when it applies within 30 days and only if transition occurs. Well transition doesn't occur in ATTACHMENT A till OEI.
You almost have to start from the bottom and read backwards. It's like how many people really read the fine print on the Credit Card sign up....Not to many. They just need the money NOW !!!!

 

[necigrad]

Actually Canale thought it was a win also. Things don't end up in arbitration unless they have merit.

According to Canale (assuming he was truthful) he knew the CiC would lose, but he "had" to let the Company think otherwise for bargining purposes.

 

[AluminumEnemaTime]

Can anyone tell me when TRANSITION DATE MIGHT BE ???????

From the 141 site:

I. Transition Dates. In general, the America West Employees in the Fleet Service craft or class (“West Employeesâ€￾) will transition to the existing US Airways/IAM Collective Bargaining Agreement, as amended (the “CBAâ€￾) within 30 days of ratification of this Agreement (the “Transition Dateâ€￾), except where transition dates for specific CBA articles are otherwise set forth in Attachment A hereto.

The M&R group ratified their agreement on April 3rd and their transition date was April 28th.

That is the date our 5 year return to the bottom of the pay scale went away.

 

[Tim Nelson]

According to Canale (assuming he was truthful) he knew the CiC would lose, but he "had" to let the Company think otherwise for bargining purposes.

He said the IAM believes there was a change in control. The letter was pulled off the website.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[mike33]

From the 141 site:

I. Transition Dates. In general, the America West Employees in the Fleet Service craft or class (“West Employeesâ€) will transition to the existing US Airways/IAM Collective Bargaining Agreement, as amended (the “CBAâ€) within 30 days of ratification of this Agreement (the “Transition Dateâ€), except where transition dates for specific CBA articles are otherwise set forth in Attachment A hereto.

The M&R group ratified their agreement on April 3rd and their transition date was April 28th.

That is the date our 5 year return to the bottom of the pay scale went away.

Good but you left out ATTACHMENT A which voids that paragragh til OEI>>>>>>>>PERIOD


Here's my reading of article 7:

· Effective on date of ratification, the 60 day rule will be eliminated for any furloughs that occur after that date.

I agree it does get eliminated on ratification date BBBBUUUTTTT !!!!!! That bullet point only applies after " TRANSITION DATE "
So when is transition date?

I. Transition Dates. In general, the America West Employees in the Fleet Service craft or class
(“West Employeesâ€) will transition to the existing US Airways/IAM Collective Bargaining
Agreement, as amended (the “CBAâ€) within 30 days of ratification of this Agreement (the
“Transition Dateâ€), except where transition dates for specific CBA articles are otherwise set
forth in Attachment A hereto.

SO....Transition date is within 30 days of ratification.......EXCEPT for specific articles in ATTACHMENT A:

ATTACHMENT A

Below are the terms for the transition of West Employees to specific CBA Articles. Where the
Transition Date specified herein is prior to Operational Employee Integration (OEI) the application of
such provision will be separate between East and West Fleet Service Employees until the date of
Operational Employee Integration (OEI). Additionally certain modifications to the East Agreement are
also included and will become effective as described in each section below.


It's called back spin logic.......some will get a headache as Freedom has and believe the 60 day applies on Ratification when it applies within 30 days and only if transition occurs. Well transition doesn't occur in ATTACHMENT A till OEI.
You almost have to start from the bottom and read backwards. It's like how many people really read the fine print on the Credit Card sign up....Not to many. They just need the money NOW !!!!

YOU HAVE TO TRY AND BE 10% SMARTER THAN THE THING UR DEALING WITH>>>it's hard when they have Spin Lawyers