Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[snapthis]

I ask again, what is the reason given why the pilot in question is not scheduled to receive a full share?

 
 
I guess that all depends on whether you're on STD or furlough.
 
Ask either one of these two.....
 
#1 Sirs,
As a member in good standing, I am insulted and disgusted at the latest attempt by East pilots to disadvantage the West pilots.
Include pilots on STD in your $40 million distribution calculations. Failure to do so flies against the Status Quo established by Profit Sharing, etc. Make this right, or face serious financial consequences in any DFR damage liabilities.

#2 Dear USAPA,

I am writing in response to the letter from USAPA dated November 16, 2013 to protest the distribution methodology of the $40 Million Distribution Resolution (passed on July 11, 2013).


per the US Airways/USAPA MOU:


 

• Allow for a $40 million lump sum signing bonus to be equally distributed by USAPA to all eligible pilots as of the Effective Date. This represents approximately $10,000 per pilot.

I feel the plain meaning of the agreement in regards to the MOU between US Airways and USAPA was for each pilot, who was on the US Airways East or US Airways West seniority list on or before Feb 8, 2013, is that such pilot have an equal share of the upcoming $40 million lump sum signing bonus.

Furthermore, the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, defines "equally" as:
1. the same in number, amount, degree, rank, or quantity
2. having the same mathematical value
3. not changing: the same for each person


per the November 16, 2013 letter from USAPA:
"The USAPA Board of Pilot Representatives decided on a distribution methodology for the $40 million bonus payment and that resolution is included with this letter."


I feel that the cavalier use of the word methodology by USAPA is self-serving. Methodology is a system of methods, principles, and rules used in a particular discipline. Can you explain any logical principle or reason for discriminating against the pilots singled out other than to unjustly take from them to unjustly enrich the majority of the pilots (i.e. those not on furlough status)

The extra money the majority of the pilots will receive under your contrived plan is minimal; however, the loss to the minority of pilots singled out (furlough status), is huge in comparison.
When the resolution was passed by the USAPA BPR on July 11, 2013, there were no pilots from the US Airways East list on involuntary furlough, however there existed 40+ pilots from the US Airways West list on involuntary furlough.

As you are surely aware, being placed on furlough is due to circumstances beyond a pilot's control and a pilot is placed on furlough through no fault of his own.

The fact is the reduced full-share amount ($2500 vs $8713) is discriminatory to the 40+ US Airways West pilots who were on involuntary furlough status on Feb 8, 2013.

I would kindly ask that the USAPA BPR immediately revise the Distribution Resolution accordingly so US Airways West pilots who were on involuntary furlough status on Feb 8, 2013 receive an "equal" distribution, as stated per the US Airways/USAPA MOU, again, below.


 

• Allow for a $40 million lump sum signing bonus to be equally distributed by USAPA to all eligible pilots as of the Effective Date. This represents approximately $10,000 per pilot.

 

 

[Piedmont1984]

Don't jump to conclusions. Identity theft or fake out occurs here right before your eyes. Not who you think.

No matter, if APA has a forum I look forward to a venue where posters can't play hide and seek, Avatar, or What's my Line.

You know, an adult forum, where anonymous blowhards can't flourish.

'84

P.S. I am guilty of running my keyboard on occasion, but at least I don't hide 🙂

 

[snapthis]

No matter, if APA has a forum I look forward to a venue where posters can't play hide and seek, Avatar, or What's my Line.

You know, an adult forum, where anonymous blowhards can't flourish.

'84

P.S. I am guilty of running my keyboard on occasion, but at least I don't hide 🙂

 
I wonder why USAPA doesn't have a message board? It's the Onion playing shuck and jive. It's the Onion which doesn't want members questioning what it has to hide.
 
Oh, I'm sure you can find an "adult" forum which fits your desires, KV. 

 

[snapthis]

Hey Snappy.....

 
 Howdy

 

[Pi brat]

 
 
I guess that all depends on whether you're on STD or furlough.
 
Ask either one of these two.....
 
#1 Sirs,
As a member in good standing, I am insulted and disgusted at the latest attempt by East pilots to disadvantage the West pilots.
Include pilots on STD in your $40 million distribution calculations. Failure to do so flies against the Status Quo established by Profit Sharing, etc. Make this right, or face serious financial consequences in any DFR damage liabilities.

#2 Dear USAPA,

I am writing in response to the letter from USAPA dated November 16, 2013 to protest the distribution methodology of the $40 Million Distribution Resolution (passed on July 11, 2013).


per the US Airways/USAPA MOU:


 

• Allow for a $40 million lump sum signing bonus to be equally distributed by USAPA to all eligible pilots as of the Effective Date. This represents approximately $10,000 per pilot.

I feel the plain meaning of the agreement in regards to the MOU between US Airways and USAPA was for each pilot, who was on the US Airways East or US Airways West seniority list on or before Feb 8, 2013, is that such pilot have an equal share of the upcoming $40 million lump sum signing bonus.

Furthermore, the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, defines "equally" as:
1. the same in number, amount, degree, rank, or quantity
2. having the same mathematical value
3. not changing: the same for each person


per the November 16, 2013 letter from USAPA:
"The USAPA Board of Pilot Representatives decided on a distribution methodology for the $40 million bonus payment and that resolution is included with this letter."


I feel that the cavalier use of the word methodology by USAPA is self-serving. Methodology is a system of methods, principles, and rules used in a particular discipline. Can you explain any logical principle or reason for discriminating against the pilots singled out other than to unjustly take from them to unjustly enrich the majority of the pilots (i.e. those not on furlough status)

The extra money the majority of the pilots will receive under your contrived plan is minimal; however, the loss to the minority of pilots singled out (furlough status), is huge in comparison.
When the resolution was passed by the USAPA BPR on July 11, 2013, there were no pilots from the US Airways East list on involuntary furlough, however there existed 40+ pilots from the US Airways West list on involuntary furlough.

As you are surely aware, being placed on furlough is due to circumstances beyond a pilot's control and a pilot is placed on furlough through no fault of his own.

The fact is the reduced full-share amount ($2500 vs $8713) is discriminatory to the 40+ US Airways West pilots who were on involuntary furlough status on Feb 8, 2013.

I would kindly ask that the USAPA BPR immediately revise the Distribution Resolution accordingly so US Airways West pilots who were on involuntary furlough status on Feb 8, 2013 receive an "equal" distribution, as stated per the US Airways/USAPA MOU, again, below.


 

• Allow for a $40 million lump sum signing bonus to be equally distributed by USAPA to all eligible pilots as of the Effective Date. This represents approximately $10,000 per pilot.

 

So what did the PHX reps have to say about all of this?

 

[EastUS1]

Perhaps Bob never operated with the victim mentality, after all his career was saved days from having the rug pulled out from under it, then he got another 5 years at the top at the expense of others.

 
"Perhaps Bob never operated with the victim mentality,..." So it seems. Perhaps you should consider growing up yourself some day.
 
"then he got another 5 years at the top at the expense of others."..? Seriously? The term EARN doesn't even exist anywhere within AWA vocabulary, does it? Just tell us all which of "you'se" noble "knights" you are thinking should've had his spot? Be specific and don't be the least bit bashful here. 😉

 

[Keroseneuser]

I guess that all depends on whether you're on STD or furlough.
 
Ask either one of these two.....
 
#1 Sirs,
As a member in good standing, I am insulted and disgusted at the latest attempt by East pilots to disadvantage the West pilots.
Include pilots on STD in your $40 million distribution calculations. Failure to do so flies against the Status Quo established by Profit Sharing, etc. Make this right, or face serious financial consequences in any DFR damage liabilities.

#2 Dear USAPA,

I am writing in response to the letter from USAPA dated November 16, 2013 to protest the distribution methodology of the $40 Million Distribution Resolution (passed on July 11, 2013).


per the US Airways/USAPA MOU:

• Allow for a $40 million lump sum signing bonus to be equally distributed by USAPA to all eligible pilots as of the Effective Date. This represents approximately $10,000 per pilot.

I feel the plain meaning of the agreement in regards to the MOU between US Airways and USAPA was for each pilot, who was on the US Airways East or US Airways West seniority list on or before Feb 8, 2013, is that such pilot have an equal share of the upcoming $40 million lump sum signing bonus.

Furthermore, the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, defines "equally" as:
1. the same in number, amount, degree, rank, or quantity
2. having the same mathematical value
3. not changing: the same for each person


per the November 16, 2013 letter from USAPA:
"The USAPA Board of Pilot Representatives decided on a distribution methodology for the $40 million bonus payment and that resolution is included with this letter."


I feel that the cavalier use of the word methodology by USAPA is self-serving. Methodology is a system of methods, principles, and rules used in a particular discipline. Can you explain any logical principle or reason for discriminating against the pilots singled out other than to unjustly take from them to unjustly enrich the majority of the pilots (i.e. those not on furlough status)

The extra money the majority of the pilots will receive under your contrived plan is minimal; however, the loss to the minority of pilots singled out (furlough status), is huge in comparison.
When the resolution was passed by the USAPA BPR on July 11, 2013, there were no pilots from the US Airways East list on involuntary furlough, however there existed 40+ pilots from the US Airways West list on involuntary furlough.

As you are surely aware, being placed on furlough is due to circumstances beyond a pilot's control and a pilot is placed on furlough through no fault of his own.

The fact is the reduced full-share amount ($2500 vs $8713) is discriminatory to the 40+ US Airways West pilots who were on involuntary furlough status on Feb 8, 2013.

I would kindly ask that the USAPA BPR immediately revise the Distribution Resolution accordingly so US Airways West pilots who were on involuntary furlough status on Feb 8, 2013 receive an "equal" distribution, as stated per the US Airways/USAPA MOU, again, below.

• Allow for a $40 million lump sum signing bonus to be equally distributed by USAPA to all eligible pilots as of the Effective Date. This represents approximately $10,000 per pilot.

Ah Ok. Think I got it now. So the west f/o's that were furloughed are going to sue due to the fact that they only got partial credit for the 40 mill due to their being furloughed when the agreement was ratified. So I assume they will also be suing the company for the back pay they missed during that time as well? Both items come from the same agreement and timeline.

So since they are f/o's their back pay will be somewhere around 5 to 15K after taxes give or take depending on their recall date...and they are going to spend at least that much for lawyer and court fees to recover about 4k or so after taxes. To do that they are going to argue in court that their furlough time should count towards their bonus accrual....while at the same time as members of AOL they will be arguing in another court that the east pilots furlough time should not be counted for anything in any way shape or form.

Think I have the basics of it now.

 

[EastUS1]

I guess that all depends on whether you're on STD or furlough.

The fact is the reduced full-share amount ($2500 vs $8713) is discriminatory to the 40+ US Airways West pilots who were on involuntary furlough status on Feb 8, 2013.

I would kindly ask that the USAPA BPR immediately revise the Distribution Resolution accordingly so US Airways West pilots who were on involuntary furlough status on Feb 8, 2013 receive an "equal" distribution, as stated per the US Airways/USAPA MOU, again, below.

 
Wow!...Just plain WOW! Since when did west philosophy ever begin to at all suggest that furloughed folks held even the slightest value? So nowadays it's: "As you are surely aware, being placed on furlough is due to circumstances beyond a pilot's control and a pilot is placed on furlough through no fault of his own."...? Seriously? How very convenient indeed. 😉 .....And just what kind of hapless buffoons would engage lawyers over so paltry a sum in any case? Is there simply something in the very air/water/whatever out there that compulsively addicts people to the smell of courtrooms? Some of "you'se" people are nothing short of clinically INSANE!
 
I do sincerely hope folks from the APA are watching all this. It'd serve them well to learn the true nature of the west people they'll be stuck with ahead of time.

 

[EastUS1]

Ah Ok. Think I got it now. So the west f/o's that were furloughed are going to sue due to the fact that they only got partial credit for the 40 mill due to their being furloughed when the agreement was ratified. So I assume they will also be suing the company for the back pay they missed during that time as well? Both items come from the same agreement and timeline.

So since they are f/o's their back pay will be somewhere around 5 to 15K after taxes give or take depending on their recall date...and they are going to spend at least that much for lawyer and court fees to recover about 4k or so after taxes. To do that they are going to argue in court that their furlough time should count towards their bonus accrual....while at the same time as members of AOL they will be arguing in another court that the east pilots furlough time should not be counted for anything in any way shape or form.

Think I have the basics of it now.

 
Indeed....Words just fail me with this latest lunacy....

 

[snapthis]

 
Wow!...Just plain WOW! Since when did west philosophy ever begin to at all suggest that furloughed folks held even the slightest value?...And what kind of hopeless buffoons would engage lawyers over so paltry a sum in any case? Is there something in the very air/water/whatever out there that compulsively addicts people to the smell of courtrooms? "You'se" people are nothing short of clinically INSANE!

 
Uh, I think these folks were furloughed incorrectly due to the evasive actions of some to avoid their agreements.
 
I.e., the arbitrated seniority list.
 
Why all the confusion and shock?

 

[Pi brat]

Ah Ok. Think I got it now. So the west f/o's that were furloughed are going to sue due to the fact that they only got partial credit for the 40 mill due to their being furloughed when the agreement was ratified. So I assume they will also be suing the company for the back pay they missed during that time as well? Both items come from the same agreement and timeline.

So since they are f/o's their back pay will be somewhere around 5 to 15K after taxes give or take depending on their recall date...and they are going to spend at least that much for lawyer and court fees to recover about 4k or so after taxes. To do that they are going to argue in court that their furlough time should count towards their bonus accrual....while at the same time as members of AOL they will be arguing in another court that the east pilots furlough time should not be counted for anything in any way shape or form.

Think I have the basics of it now.

But you missed a critical term-INVOLUNTARILY FURLOUGHED. Oh wait, they were offered recall on the east. Never mind.

 

[snapthis]

But you missed a critical term-INVOLUNTARILY FURLOUGHED. Oh wait they were offered recall on the east. Never mind.

What's so hard to grasp?
 
They never should have been furloughed in the first place.

 

[Pi brat]

 
Uh, I think these folks were furloughed incorrectly due to the evasive actions of some to avoid their agreements.
 
I.e., the arbitrated seniority list.
 
Why all the confusion and shock?

Read your TA and the arbitration decision for furlough out of seniority then get back to us. Some of you have this amazing ability to ignore reality.

 

[EastUS1]

Read your TA and the arbitration decision for furlough out of seniority then get back to us. Some of you have this amazing ability to ignore reality.

 
"Some of you have this amazing ability to ignore reality." "Some"? That's overly generous. Based on the latest legal antics per the MOU; they've apparently claimed a wholesale group inability to even read! 😉

 

[snapthis]

Read your TA and the arbitration decision for furlough out of seniority then get back to us. Some of you have this amazing ability to ignore reality.

 
It's too bad not everyone can evade their prior agreements by forming a "union"
 
If I thought like an Usapian, if I don't like my house payment, I simply change my name