Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Claxon]

The only ones who say it isn't ripe are you scabs...you know, the idiots that refused to meet today. HA! The APA and AOL are going to have a field day with USCABA. You'd know that had you shown up today. You people are utterly incapable of rational behavior. AOL and the West reps are masters at playing you fools.

How did the meeting go today sir?
 
To be fair, I will advise you ahead of time that this is a rhetorical question.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

How did the meeting go today sir?
 
To be fair, I will advise you ahead of time that this is a rhetorical question.

Well, how did it go? That's not rhetorical. I have not a clue, and have not heard from anyone who does.

 

[Claxon]

Well, how did it go? That's not rhetorical. I have not a clue, and have not heard from anyone who does.

Is it possible that the meeting did not go as well as expected with the west?  The lack of west participation on this forum this evening may be a possible indication of less than expected results. 

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Is it possible that the meeting did not go as well as expected with the west?  The lack of west participation on this forum this evening may be a possible indication of less than expected results.

Sure it's possible, anything is. But by the same token, if it's good for usapa, that news usually travels faster than the speed of light. For example, I read about the 9th CT's remand from a usapa email I got, and when I texted a plaintiff I knew, he hadn't heard a thing about it yet.

 

[Reed Richards]

Was there a meeting today?  If so, who was there? Did our company engage in contract  discussions with someone other than the bargaining agent?  I sure hope so. Please make it true. RR

 

[Reed Richards]

 For example, I read about the 9th CT's remand from a usapa email I got, and when I texted a plaintiff I knew, he hadn't heard a thing about it yet.

He was proabably tied up in Minecraft or or on his xbox;  or maybe on his facebook page.  RR

 

[Res Judicata]

I have type ratings on all your aircraft except one. I have caveman views as well. It's called time. Your time is no more nor no less valuable than mine, contrary to ALPA/APA beliefs. FA's don't care about size. Why should we? Your president said it best that new hire pilots under the new regs should be Captain qualified. Why treat them any differently?

Here he goes! The mustachioed "founding SCAB father" over reaching to steal that which would have never belonged to him. Keep an eye on these USAPA azzholes, they would stab their own mothers if they thought it would get them ahead. Not to worry though. We've held these idiots heads under water since the day their fake scab union, USAPA, was born. Luckily for the sane people, they're too fking stupid to harm anyone but themselves.

The APA got the full, uninterrupted briefing today.

 

[Res Judicata]

Mach85ER
My view is that we should avoid arbitration, install good fences around existing widebody aircraft, find a reasonable formula for sharing in future widebodies and above all avoid arbitration.
Other than that I think we should avoid arbitration.
'84

Gee, I wonder why you'd want to avoid a neutral third party issuing a fair and equitable ruling. You don't want something that DOESN'T BELONG TO YOU NOW DO YOU?

 

[Claxon]

Gee, I wonder why you'd want to avoid a neutral third party issuing a fair and equitable ruling. You don't want something that DOESN'T BELONG TO YOU NOW DO YOU?

 
Us Airways, America West Seniority Dispute rough draft timeline

2005-2006  US Airways, United in merger talks

2005 Us Airways, America West merge

May 2007  Arbitrator George Nicolau’ pilot seniority award was issued.  The award was written with the assistance of two ALPA pilot neutrals, Steve Gillen United Airlines Pilot and  Jim Brucia former Continental pilot now United Airlines Pilot.

2007 Us Airways pilots ask ALPA to review the award.  ALPA president  John Prater, former Continental pilot now United Airlines pilot, assigns ALPA vice president Paul Rice, United pilot,  to review the award.

December 2007,  Paul Rice, United pilot, delivers seniority list to Us Airways.

2007  A group of Us Airways pilots start a drive to start their own in house pilot union.

March 2008  ALPA puts the Us Airways ALPA Mec in trusteeship.

April  2008  In a National Mediation Board sanctioned election, Us Airways pilots oust ALPA and vote in USAPA as their official pilot representative.

May 2008  United calls off merger talk with Us Airways.

June 24, 2008   United Airlines starts furloughing pilots that will eventually lead to 1450 pilots at United on the street.  Had a merger occurred using the Nicolau award derived with the assistance of United pilot neutrals,  Us Airways pilots would have suffered the brunt of the furloughs and few United pilots would have been affected.

2008  America West pilots sue for DFR against USAPA.

2009  2010 US Airways and United restart merger talks.

April 2010  United Us Airways end merger talks.

June 2010  The 9th circuit court rules in USAPA’s favor.
 

 

[Reed Richards]

The APA got the full, uninterrupted briefing today.

They probably got one yesterday, also.  RR

 

[Phoenix]

How did the meeting go today sir?
 
To be fair, I will advise you ahead of time that this is a rhetorical question.

 
 
A little more to the background of the "meeting".  

 

CLT Domicile Update


Details

 

Created on Friday, 20 December 2013 15:12

SENIORITY INTEGRATION
On December 10, the Company's legal counsel sent an email inviting USAPA, APA, and the Addington II plaintiffs to a meeting on December 20 to discuss the seniority integration. The USAPA Merger Committee responded that the process was primarily between the certified bargaining representatives for the two pilots groups and declined to participate. In a reply to the meeting invitation, the Addington II plaintiffs stated they had selected a "West Merger Committee," named the members of the self-selected committee, and said they would attend the meeting.
On December 17, the Army of Leonidas put out an update about this proposed meeting and indicated they (the Addington II Plaintiffs) were invited to attend. They have taken it upon themselves to consider the invitation a reason to create a Merger Committee that has no official standing with any bargaining agent or court. What is most troubling is the Company has invited them. This is not surprising since, as we wrote about in our previous update, the Company has taken a position of support for the Addington II Plaintiffs to have their own independent Merger Committee funded by USAPA. They submitted several legal filings with Judge Silver's Court in support of this position.
Our Merger Committee, with the support of the BPR, has chosen not to attend this meeting. USAPA is the legal bargaining agent for all the pilots of US Airways, and unless the Court rules to allow a third pilot group representative to take part in seniority integration talks, it serves no constructive purpose to include any group other than the Certified Bargaining Agents. In addition, this may very well cause delays in an already time-constrained initial process. The Merger Committee put out an update today (click here) with more details.
On the subject of seniority integration, we would like to reiterate your CLT Reps' previous position as it relates to the current merger. As per the USAPA Constitution and Bylaws, we support a date of hire seniority integration methodology. If it becomes apparent that our Merger Committee needs to deviate from this methodology through negotiations or arbitration, we fully support credit for furlough time in any negotiated seniority list integration. Remember, your Board must approve any negotiated list.
 

 

[Reed Richards]

I think the following might be part of my "best post ever."  As my time dwindles here, I might post it a few more times:
 
[SIZE=12pt]The method you suggest to get “more” was already used when the BPR turned down MOU I. Pat, Brian, and especialy Roland (Professional Negotiator for USAPA) did all but BEG the BPR to take that deal. Next time you see Roland at a meeting, pull him aside and ask him if he would have preferred MOU I over II. He will tell you with MOU I in his pocket he could have done BETTER than MOU II later on. But that did not happen, the BPR did as you mention (and as the majority of our pilots believe) and held out dangerously for MOU II. We came very close to simply being left behind. When it did come down to the wire on II, the head of the UCC made it clear he was not going to risk the great returns he was getting for his clients waiting for your group to be satisfied. Please, ask Roland. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Bottom line is we paid and supposedly trusted a very talented group of advisors, including the long promised “professional negotiator” Wilder..and we did not listen to them. We are damn lucky (yes lucky) we got anything. Dec 9th could had come and gone, the merger would have happened, and we would still be under LOA 93 for another 18 or so months waiting for single carrier status. All these years of getting the short end by letting “pilots” do our bidding, and we finally get it right..and ignore the process and advice. I am convinced if we had even another pension this group (most of you on this forum) would be stupid enough to lose it.[/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=12pt]RR[/SIZE]
 

 

[traderjake]

"Remember, your Board must approve any negotiated list."
 
I bet the Board will disapprove of any arbitrated list.

 

[Claxon]

They probably got one yesterday, also.  RR

I like what USAPA put out in their latest communication regarding the companies attempt to car jack the legal day to day activities of a union.  Not picking sides, but mildly impressed.

 

[traderjake]

[SIZE=12pt]The method you suggest to get “more” was already used when the BPR turned down MOU I. Pat, Brian, and especialy Roland (Professional Negotiator for USAPA) did all but BEG the BPR to take that deal. Next time you see Roland at a meeting, pull him aside and ask him if he would have preferred MOU I over II. He will tell you with MOU I in his pocket he could have done BETTER than MOU II later on. But that did not happen, the BPR did as you mention (and as the majority of our pilots believe) and held out dangerously for MOU II. We came very close to simply being left behind. When it did come down to the wire on II, the head of the UCC made it clear he was not going to risk the great returns he was getting for his clients waiting for your group to be satisfied. Please, ask Roland. [/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=12pt]RR[/SIZE]
 

 
Who should I believe?
 
Pat, Brian and Roland or Bill McKee?