US Pilot Labor Thread--ALL Pilot/Union Issues Discussed Here

[Megasnoop]

Snoop,

You had better check with the cult leader before you make a statement like that.

According to USAPA leadership they represent ALL US Airways pilots. The front page of the web site .

What is USAPA?
The US Airline Pilots Association represents 5,200 Mainline US Airways pilots.

Clear, if you dont pay, you wont be a pilot at LCC, so you wont have or need representation. And thats ok with me. You can bad mouth with comments like "cult" all you want. It wont change the fact that USAPA is the CBA. 16 months from now, youll have your chance to vote USAPA out. Meanwhile, If you dont pay, you wont be represented by USAPA, because you wont be a pilot at LCC.

The NMB says USAPA represents ALL pilots. Doug Parker says USAPA represents ALL the pilots.
Thank you for confirming what the west already know. That USAPA does not represent the west pilot in any way.

your welcome. If you dont pay, you wont be a pilot at LCC. And thats ok with me.

Better check with your masters your brain washing is slipping. Get your talking points right.

Just checked with my bpr. with the susie loophole is gone, If you dont pay, you wont be a pilot at LCC. and thats ok with me. snoop

 

[traderjake]

Did USAPA succeed in getting someone fired or just did their fix their poorly written CBLs?

 

[traderjake]

nostradamus

Thanks for going back 4 years to point out the consistency of my position. You must lead a full and rewarding life.

ALPA was bad. Everyone stabbing each other in the back to get ahead. Same with USAPA, only worst.

 

[hp_fa]

And somehow you're missing the fact that everything you are saying about being cultlike also applies to you and your infatuation and defense of everything west. Any mirrors in your house?

I disagree. I believe BoeingBoy is defending the integrity of those he served with in US Airway's internal ALPA organization. I believe he has fundamental differences with many decisions that eventually brought USAPA into power and how that power has been used.

Anyway that is what I think Jim is doing.

 

[Metroyet]

Just checked with my bpr. with the susie loophole is gone, If you dont pay, you wont be a pilot at LCC. and thats ok with me. snoop

Sure. Never heard that one before...

BTW, I heard about the first PHX "base meeting"

Your Cadre of buffoons and their weasel lawyer, and all PHX pilots who are among the arbitrarily determined "good standing"

all TWO (2) of them!!!

Funny how that's exactly the same number of armed guards/cops USAPA rents to attend their west meetings to provide the perceived need for physical protection.

That's One Armed guard per dues payer? Seems extreme. Although I shouldn't be surprised. I'm sure the next meeting will be held a Guantanamo Bay, (they need all the protection they can get apparently). Here's an idea. At the next meeting. Make sure all the proper cult member/worshipers are present, handcuff them, get their specially assigned guard to draw his weapon on said "union' member, and THEN show you little power point about how cool the new seniority/fantasy/never-see-reality, list is?

That'll show 'em who's boss!! Think about all the additional respect that can be gained?!

Yep. Some union. That Contract will be here any day now.

 

[EastUS]

I'm sure the next meeting will be held a Guantanamo Bay, (they need all the protection they can get apparently). Here's an idea.

COMMENT DELETED BY MODERATOR

Megasnoop: "Clear, if you dont pay, you wont be a pilot at LCC, so you wont have or need representation. And thats ok with me. You can bad mouth with comments like "cult" all you want. It wont change the fact that USAPA is the CBA. 16 months from now, youll have your chance to vote USAPA out. Meanwhile, If you dont pay, you wont be represented by USAPA, because you wont be a pilot at LCC."

"If you dont pay, you wont be represented by USAPA, because you wont be a pilot at LCC"

Snoop..At this point?..I'm also fine with that. I find that I'm fresh outta' any residual sympathy whatsoever.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I disagree. I believe BoeingBoy is defending the integrity of those he served with in US Airway's internal ALPA organization. I believe he has fundamental differences with many decisions that eventually brought USAPA into power and how that power has been used.

Only sorta....

ALPA, like any organization of that type, has it's good and bad. Same on the local (airline) level, with the biggest difference being that there were lots of people who volunteered their time at the MEC/LEC level while their equivalents at the national level held paid positions.

I've previously said that it's not the union that makes the pilot group, but rather the pilot group that makes the union. Once the highly charged issue of seniority integration is decided - probably by one or more judges - and the union is engaged in the more mundane day to day issues that any union faces, the pilot group will determine whether USAPA succeeds or not. There'll always be those that seek elective office for the best of reasons or the worst of reasons. The pilot group will determine which get into office and how long they stay in office. Just as the East pilots scoff at "ALPO" and the "ALPOIDS" now, though many of those held in such disdain remained there election after election, will they one day bemoan what the "USAPS" have done while not taking the time to stay up to date on issues or even bother to vote?

Purely as an outsider looking in, I have to wonder if some of the bureaucracy building isn't already starting. As I understand it, USAPA only has 3 salaried positions, yet there are 11 pilots on full time FPL with USAPA as of this latest bid. As I said, the pilot group can control the union or let the union control them - the choice is entirely that of the line pilots.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Only sorta....

ALPA, like any organization of that type, has it's good and bad. Same on the local (airline) level, with the biggest difference being that there were lots of people who volunteered their time at the MEC/LEC level while their equivalents at the national level held paid positions.
..........

Jim

Unions, the local PTA, church boards-whenever you put two or more people together it becomes political. One big problem US will always have with it's pilot's union will be the mergers. Old cultures don't mix and wounds never heal, at least when the airline is constantly shrinking and fighting to stay alive. If we were fighting on how big the raise will be things might be different. This pilot group will be fighting until all current pilots are retired, no matter what the union name is.


MOD NOTE: Do NOT quote entire posts in your responses, ESPECIALLY when the post you are commenting on is immediately above your response.

 

[cubfan]

People who instruct you to "be a good union pilots" and the people who listen to that drivel are cult members.

trader, thanks for clearing this up for me, I had always thought a good union pilot was one who paid dues, voiced their opinion, and participated in the process. Have I been wrong for 21yrs?

 

[Megasnoop]

BTW, I heard about the first PHX "base meeting"

Your Cadre of buffoons and their weasel lawyer, and all PHX pilots who are among the arbitrarily determined "good standing"

all TWO (2) of them!!!

2? That many? Im shocked, too! Im sure your DELETED BY MODERATOR will publicize their names and start another round of intimidation. I doubt if we sent out invitations to non-members or members in bad standing. I dont think "good standing" was too hard to figure out. We just looked at the list of who paid dues.

Bottom line now is the susie loophole is closed. so she can pay up or be fired. snooper

 

[Flyz4food]

trader, thanks for clearing this up for me, I had always thought a good union pilot was one who paid dues, voiced their opinion, and participated in the process. Have I been wrong for 21yrs?

You do realize that with the implementation of the new CB&Ls, you voted to give up your right to voice your opinion. You voted to give up your right of free speech. You only have a right if that opinion that agrees with the "union" position. If you voice against it, you will be subject to fines, bad standing and lawsuits from the union. Then again, you probably didn't read all the changes. Amazing that the changes were all included in one vote and not a line item for each. It was all or nothing. Didn't anyone see a problem with that?

 

[Richard]

OK, Here is a last reminder:

Do NOT make personal comments, call names or insult other members. Comment on the POSTS, not the POSTERS.

Keep it about the issues, not the people. Our patience is wearing thin.

 

[cleardirect]

2? That many? Im shocked, too! Im sure your goon squad will publicize their names and start another round of intimidation. I doubt if we sent out invitations to non-members or members in bad standing. I dont think "good standing" was too hard to figure out. We just looked at the list of who paid dues.

Bottom line now is the susie loophole is closed. so she can pay up or be fired. snooper

No goon squad here in the desert. We leave that sort of thing to you DELETED BY MODERATOR.

I spoke to one of the two in the gathering yesterday. No intimidation at all. They were encouraged to attend. Have to keep an eye on the devil at all times.

20 of us showed up to hear what USAPA had to say. Booted out. To bad, it would have been a opportunity to get some information and exchange ideas. Missed opportunity. But the fearful leaders would have rather outnumbered the attendance. Plus the two cops for protection.

All in all a waste of time. Nothing voted on, nothing decided. No PHX or LAS reps appointed. Only a check box in the defense of another DFR. Union money at work. What did it cost to send 8 of your high priced leaders plus Seham to PHX to talk to 2 people. Not a very efficient use of money. Plus the rent on a federal building.

Any clue why they chose a federal building on a federal holiday to hold a domicile meeting? How do you have a LAS domicile meeting in PHX?

Once again be careful what you wish for.

That “Susie loopholeâ€￾ may just turn into a noose for the east.

Quick question. If the federal judge rules that the Nicolau award must be implemented and USAPA does not get you DOH. Will you quit and refuse to pay dues or agency shop to USAPA?

 

[cubfan]

You do realize that with the implementation of the new CB&Ls, you voted to give up your right to voice your opinion. You voted to give up your right of free speech. You only have a right if that opinion that agrees with the "union" position. If you voice against it, you will be subject to fines, bad standing and lawsuits from the union. Then again, you probably didn't read all the changes. Amazing that the changes were all included in one vote and not a line item for each. It was all or nothing. Didn't anyone see a problem with that?

Flyz, pls read paragraph 2 of the preamble, it says nothing of having to agree or else, I think this takes care of the argument of free speech. Sec 6 as I read it is all about acting as an adult. In any correspondence with the union or any member you must always act in a cival manner. I feel this prevents the type of behavior some have been accused of whom ever they are. If my children disagree with something their mother or I feel is in their best interest, they can voice their opinion, if it is done in a condescending or disrespectful fashion they will get the smack down they deserve. If anyone feels different, join and request a change to the cbl's, it only takes 25% to request a change and a new vote.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Quick question. If the federal judge rules that the Nicolau award must be implemented and USAPA does not get you DOH. Will you quit and refuse to pay dues or agency shop to USAPA?

Of course not. USAPA isn't only about Section 22 of the contract. It's about Section 1 through 30, and a myriad of other issues.

From the outset, USAPA never said that they could get rid of Nicolau. They did say they would try, among many other things they said they would attempt to accomplish.

Many of us who not directly affected by Nicolau jumped at the chance to support USAPA simply because we were sick of the ALPA B.S. (the imperious, ivory-tower, top-down nonsense that Herndon spewed in ever increasing quantity. There's no way to tell now, but I think if ALPA had simply closed off the spigot of their incessant B.S. rhetoric and tactics during the voting period, they would still be on the property.)

Those who were affected by Nicolau were well aware that USAPA could not guarantee that getting rid of ALPA would mean getting rid of Nicolau. They were also very aware that keeping ALPA meant that Nicolau would be a certainty. I think every one of us who voted for USAPA understood that this would all end up in court; we just decided it was well worth the price to get rid of ALPA.

I still feel that way and will continue to support USAPA financially and philosophically no matter where these lawsuits land.